Italian Ground Forces

[Chase]

They have some weak tanks, i guess when it gets near the 'modern' era they have some good ones, i dont know, Italy really never had good armor, and I really dont mind them delaying the ground forces because I don't play Italy, and I would perfer them rather to make a new engine and larger maps for air and land vehicles, like 2nd gen jets.

[Kay]

Първоначално публикувано от Mocha Kawa:

I honestly dont care about having prototypes/paper tanks in trees that desperately need fleshing out, as long as Proto/Paper tanks used reached a certain point (Ex: Finalized blueprints, wooden models, parts had been made just not completed, etc)

Japan would benefit slightly from it, and by god would Italy suddenly be 10x easier for Gaijin to make a real thing. It wont happen though cuz "muh historical accuracy boner", even though it would desperately help incredibly tiny tech trees.

Honestly wouldn't mind that, if it is only used for the trees that really do need it (the ones that really don't have anything to put there, or very few things to put there) and as you said, mockups, finalised blueprints or parts being manufactured for them, so we see the tanks that didn't reach production, but if the war went longer maybe they would have.

[SwedishStyle97]

Just wondering do they add in tanks that are "half build" if we say that the Chassi is build but not the turret.

[Mocha]

Първоначално публикувано от Ki'agh:

Първоначално публикувано от Mocha Kawa:

I honestly dont care about having prototypes/paper tanks in trees that desperately need fleshing out, as long as Proto/Paper tanks used reached a certain point (Ex: Finalized blueprints, wooden models, parts had been made just not completed, etc)

Japan would benefit slightly from it, and by god would Italy suddenly be 10x easier for Gaijin to make a real thing. It wont happen though cuz "muh historical accuracy boner", even though it would desperately help incredibly tiny tech trees.

Honestly wouldn't mind that, if it is only used for the trees that really do need it (the ones that really don't have anything to put there, or very few things to put there) and as you said, mockups, finalised blueprints or parts being manufactured for them, so we see the tanks that didn't reach production, but if the war went longer maybe they would have.

Hell even after trees that need it, some larger trees could get alot of neat/fun tanks to help flesh out their gameplay *cough* VK16.02 Leopard *cough*

[Stridswombat]

Първоначално публикувано от SwedishStyle97:

Just wondering do they add in tanks that are "half build" if we say that the Chassi is build but not the turret.

Talking about the KRV chassis are we? Honestly I feel it shouldn't be added. Too many unknowns.

That said it isn't entirely unheard of. I mean the Panther 2 is in the game, though I think that's going to be removed.

Out of everything in the Swedish tree, having the KRV prototype in there is what I disagree with the most. We have no idea if the planned design for the turret would have worked out in reality at all.

Prototypes that were built is one thing (though I'd like to avoid those too if possible) stuff that is only theoretical is another altogether.

Първоначално публикувано от Silent:

I thought the Chi-Ha was also welded. Looking at the pictures, it seems to be riveted rather than welded. I agree that it's not a great representation, but I was purely comparing the height of both countries medium/heavy tank development.

It's possible they may have switched to welding it in later production vehicles. It was in use for a long time.

[SwedishStyle97]

Първоначално публикувано от AK Rowling:

Първоначално публикувано от SwedishStyle97:

Just wondering do they add in tanks that are "half build" if we say that the Chassi is build but not the turret.

Talking about the KRV chassis are we? Honestly I feel it shouldn't be added. Too many unknowns.

That said it isn't entirely unheard of. I mean the Panther 2 is in the game, though I think that's going to be removed.

Out of everything in the Swedish tree, having the KRV prototype in there is what I disagree with the most. We have no idea if the planned design for the turret would have worked out in reality at all.

Prototypes that were built is one thing (though I'd like to avoid those too if possible) stuff that is only theoretical is another altogether.

Първоначално публикувано от Silent:

I thought the Chi-Ha was also welded. Looking at the pictures, it seems to be riveted rather than welded. I agree that it's not a great representation, but I was purely comparing the height of both countries medium/heavy tank development.

It's possible they may have switched to welding it in later production vehicles. It was in use for a long time.

Thanks for the answer.
Just thinking if they could add the KRV as a Event or something like that.
Some Swedish prototypes is necessary. Like the Strv "Delat Torn"
And yes we can skip some prototypes like the Lago.

[Stridswombat]

Първоначално публикувано от SwedishStyle97:

Thanks for the answer.
Just thinking if they could add the KRV as a Event or something like that.
Some Swedish prototypes is necessary. Like the Strv "Delat Torn"
And yes we can skip some prototypes like the Lago.

Well the difference here is those were actually built. We only have 3 things on the KRV (or Kranvagn) prototype.

1. 2 prototype hulls were built.

2. A wooden mockup including the intended design of the turret was built.

3. A few suggestions for what gun it would be armed with were documented.

Everything above the hull would be purely theoretical. We don't know if the turret would have been changed in the final vehicle, we don't know if the intended design would work at all and we don't even know for sure what cannon it would be armed with and whether or not that would have fit in the turret. Too much guesswork.

[kamikazi21358]

Първоначално публикувано от SwedishStyle97:

Just wondering do they add in tanks that are "half build" if we say that the Chassi is build but not the turret.

The E-100 had it’s chassis built but incompleted, and in game has the Maus turret; it is an event vehicle though. As well, the Panther II has it’s hull fully built, but never had a schmalturm; the Panther II is actually in a museum somewhere, with a Panther G’s turret attatched.
I believe these are the only 2 vehicles in game that were not fully built, as far as I researched every other vehicle in game has been built at least once.
Although, Gaijin did give a strong indication before in the recent past that they may or may not be interested in considering premoving the Panther II and Tiger 105 in game, and replacing them with something produced, or at least be no longer to be research and bought, so this might be a small possibility.

[Obamenau]

Първоначално публикувано от kamikazi21358:

Първоначално публикувано от SwedishStyle97:

Just wondering do they add in tanks that are "half build" if we say that the Chassi is build but not the turret.

The E-100 had it’s chassis built but incompleted, and in game has the Maus turret; it is an event vehicle though. As well, the Panther II has it’s hull fully built, but never had a schmalturm; the Panther II is actually in a museum somewhere, with a Panther G’s turret attatched.
I believe these are the only 2 vehicles in game that were not fully built, as far as I researched every other vehicle in game has been built at least once.

The panther 2s Turret is the problem here.

The ingame turret never existed and is an invention by gaijin. A long 88 wouldve never fitted into a Schmallturm. Hence the panther 2 is a fantasy tank. It should, like you mentioned, simply have a panther G turret.

[Chase]

Well if they are going to add tanks for Italy, they would be paper, and not strong with weak guns, theres even a youtube video and a meme on how Italy was so bad, they never did anything really, their tanks would be so easy to kill in game, what would be the fun in playing them

[Lain]

Първоначално публикувано от Slick:

Well if they are going to add tanks for Italy, they would be paper, and not strong with weak guns, theres even a youtube video and a meme on how Italy was so bad, they never did anything really, their tanks would be so easy to kill in game, what would be the fun in playing them

They're much better than you think. The problem is that tanks weren't exactly Italy's main focus using the very, very limited resources they had. One of the 90mm guns they used had somewhere around 200mm of penetration with the AP shell. I think the 47mm guns had 76mm of pen or so, and the 75mm the P40 Leoncello uses should have 90mm. Another thing to note is that the Italians used APHE shells, which will significantly help in killing power. Armor will likely be weak and not stand up to too much. But again, we'll see how they perform in game when they come out.

[Stridswombat]

Първоначално публикувано от Rootin Tootin Putin:

They're much better than you think. The problem is that tanks weren't exactly Italy's main focus using the very, very limited resources they had. One of the 90mm guns they used had somewhere around 200mm of penetration with the AP shell. I think the 47mm guns had 76mm of pen or so, and the 75mm the P40 Leoncello uses should have 90mm. Another thing to note is that the Italians used APHE shells, which will significantly help in killing power. Armor will likely be weak and not stand up to too much. But again, we'll see how they perform in game when they come out.

Ehh, the P26/40 will be the only thing with some armour. Even then it only has about 60mm on the flat portions of the turret front. Also have to take into consideration that the RoF of the guns will probably be pretty bad due to the turret crew and size. The Chi-He's 47mm is good because of its fast RoF for example. Italian tanks won't get that.

[kamikazi21358]

Първоначално публикувано от Slick:

Well if they are going to add tanks for Italy, they would be paper, and not strong with weak guns, theres even a youtube video and a meme on how Italy was so bad, they never did anything really, their tanks would be so easy to kill in game, what would be the fun in playing them

I don’t care what nation, I am 100% against paper tanks.

Rank 1-3 will probably be Italians, then rank 3-5 US mostly as many Italian Cold War vehicles were US. They’ll get M60s and stuff too I imagine, the pinnical of the tree will be the Italian C1 Ariete (which might not come yet, Strong tank) and B1 Centaurio (already mentioned, I’m going for this one).

[Mocha]

Първоначално публикувано от kamikazi21358:

Първоначално публикувано от Slick:

Well if they are going to add tanks for Italy, they would be paper, and not strong with weak guns, theres even a youtube video and a meme on how Italy was so bad, they never did anything really, their tanks would be so easy to kill in game, what would be the fun in playing them

I don’t care what nation, I am 100% against paper tanks.

Rank 1-3 will probably be Italians, then rank 3-5 US mostly as many Italian Cold War vehicles were US. They’ll get M60s and stuff too I imagine, the pinnical of the tree will be the Italian C1 Ariete (which might not come yet, Strong tank) and B1 Centaurio (already mentioned, I’m going for this one).

So you'd rather just a tree that's majority US imports? At that point I don't want a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Italian tree just add them to the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ US

[Lain]

Първоначално публикувано от AK Rowling:

Ehh, the P26/40 will be the only thing with some armour. Even then it only has about 60mm on the flat portions of the turret front. Also have to take into consideration that the RoF of the guns will probably be pretty bad due to the turret crew and size. The Chi-He's 47mm is good because of its fast RoF for example. Italian tanks won't get that.

The P40 I have bounces a lot of shots for some reason, I've also gotten the reload down to 5.3 seconds due to an ace crew, but yeah, the two man turrets might be an issue.

[Stridswombat]

Първоначално публикувано от Mocha Kawa:

So you'd rather just a tree that's majority US imports? At that point I don't want a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Italian tree just add them to the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ US

What we don't want is a tree that's fiction. That's what's the result when you start adding vehicles that didn't exist. The game is still based on reality and history in the vehicles that are in it and paper vehicles are purely fiction. At that point you might aswell add in 40k tanks for how historically relevant the vehicles are.

American vehicles might not be unique but atleast they exist.

Първоначално публикувано от Rootin Tootin Putin:

Първоначално публикувано от AK Rowling:

Ehh, the P26/40 will be the only thing with some armour. Even then it only has about 60mm on the flat portions of the turret front. Also have to take into consideration that the RoF of the guns will probably be pretty bad due to the turret crew and size. The Chi-He's 47mm is good because of its fast RoF for example. Italian tanks won't get that.

The P40 I have bounces a lot of shots for some reason, I've also gotten the reload down to 5.3 seconds due to an ace crew, but yeah, the two man turrets might be an issue.

The hull is reasonably bouncy. Should atleast be on par with the Sherman and T-34. The turrets survivability comes from being small and hard to hit the flat parts on.

Not sure how much that RoF gain is from crew training, but it sounds like its RoF is much higher than it should be. There's no way in hell you're getting the RoF down to being faster than a Shermans with a 2-man crew and a tiny turret. It should be on early T-34 levels.