Leopard A1A1 - Worst Stock Grind In Game

[Houdini]

Seeing as it gets Uptiered 99/100 times, it literally is the WORST tank in game. You are so limited in the way in which you can play. Everything else on the battlefield does everything better. Should it not be at 8.7? Not that I think it would help much. Thoughts... (And whats your worst stock grind experience so far)

[pompous]

Originally posted by Houdini:

Seeing as it gets Uptiered 99/100 times, it literally is the WORST tank in game. You are so limited in the way in which you can play. Everything else on the battlefield does everything better. Should it not be at 8.7? Not that I think it would help much. Thoughts... (And whats your worst stock grind experience so far)

No, the KPZ-70 is worse, you are at a higher tier and you only get chamincal round to start with so you have to face M1 abrams with chamical round that dont have even half the pen needed.

[Skysnow]

While I can agree that the leo a1a1 is a horrible stock grind it can't have a BR lower than what it has right now AND still have apfsds. A possible fix would be to give it a higher br once apfsds is mounted on the tank.

[kamikazi21358]

They should put the A1A1 back at like 8.0 or 8.3 without APFSDS, and add the Leopard 1A2-1A5, with maybe the 4 taking the place of the A1A1 with APFSDS - and since the 1A4 is a late ‘70s, early ‘80s tank, it would be a better choice to have the APFSDS a lower tier shell upgrade. Also, it’s a better tank anyways.

[Houdini]

Originally posted by Sir Det Mist:

Originally posted by Houdini:

Seeing as it gets Uptiered 99/100 times, it literally is the WORST tank in game. You are so limited in the way in which you can play. Everything else on the battlefield does everything better. Should it not be at 8.7? Not that I think it would help much. Thoughts... (And whats your worst stock grind experience so far)

No, the KPZ-70 is worse, you are at a higher tier and you only get chamincal round to start with so you have to face M1 abrams with chamical round that dont have even half the pen needed.

Have to say I disagree, I have the US version (This may make my opinion somewhat bias - being that I dont have to shoot XM-1/Abrams etc). I would say though, is that it does have speed and manouverability. So you can at least get to some good spots early game. The A1A1 cannot. The KPZ also has a fantastic 20mm that allows it to be much more versatile. The Rocket can also be useful against heli's. Yet more features that the A1A1 doesnt have. But thats just my opinion, and I respect yours if you dislike the KPZ stock grind.

I think the point that we share is that high tier stock grinds against the US are painful!

[Spude]

Funny how it goes, at lower tiers you can be uptiered and still do fine (say Cromwell V in 4.7) but go at the highest tiers and your progression is nearly halted due to uptier.

[kamikazi21358]

Originally posted by Spud-Mann:

Funny how it goes, at lower tiers you can be uptiered and still do fine (say Cromwell V in 4.7) but go at the highest tiers and your progression is nearly halted due to uptier.

Rank 5+ experiences extreme br compression, they need serious decompression.

[DevilDaRebel]

Originally posted by kamikazi21358:

Originally posted by Spud-Mann:

Funny how it goes, at lower tiers you can be uptiered and still do fine (say Cromwell V in 4.7) but go at the highest tiers and your progression is nearly halted due to uptier.

Rank 5+ experiences extreme br compression, they need serious decompression.

Not enough top tier players.

[pompous]

Originally posted by DevilDaRebel:

Originally posted by kamikazi21358:

Rank 5+ experiences extreme br compression, they need serious decompression.

Not enough top tier players.

Thats not completely true, there is enough to decompress it and iff they did decompress it more people would play.

[DevilDaRebel]

Originally posted by Sir Det Mist:

Originally posted by DevilDaRebel:

Not enough top tier players.

Thats not completely true, there is enough to decompress it and iff they did decompress it more people would play.

Really? Because I'm sure the reason uptiers happens is because matchmaking couldn't find enough of players within the same B.R, so it brings players up 1.0+ BR higher to fill the lobby. Why else would uptier happen? That's why massive uptiers starts happening around late tier 4 and early tier 5. And why Germany has the dreaded 5.7 BR uptiers.

1. This is a niche game
2. Really grindy
3. Only dedicated fans will remain long enough to grind into top tier.

[Rumpelcrutchskin]

It should be 8.3 just like first russian tanks with APFSDS.

[83athom]

"Leo is the worst stock grind"
*Coughts in Patton*

[Foxtrot39]

Pretty sure the B2 BRENNUS is being worse off than the leo A1A1 even if it lower compared to it

Bouncy low velocity HEAT

Everyone start having composite armor with protection aimed toward CE ammo

No stabiliser

Constant uptier to the 9.7-10.0 black hole

[ODINMASTER]

Originally posted by kamikazi21358:

They should put the A1A1 back at like 8.0 or 8.3 without APFSDS, and add the Leopard 1A2-1A5, with maybe the 4 taking the place of the A1A1 with APFSDS - and since the 1A4 is a late ‘70s, early ‘80s tank, it would be a better choice to have the APFSDS a lower tier shell upgrade. Also, it’s a better tank anyways.

But the t62 and t55 have apfsds, more armour and are at 8.3, so why shouldnt the a1a1 be at 8.7 with apfsds?

[pompous]

Originally posted by ODINMASTER:

Originally posted by kamikazi21358:

They should put the A1A1 back at like 8.0 or 8.3 without APFSDS, and add the Leopard 1A2-1A5, with maybe the 4 taking the place of the A1A1 with APFSDS - and since the 1A4 is a late ‘70s, early ‘80s tank, it would be a better choice to have the APFSDS a lower tier shell upgrade. Also, it’s a better tank anyways.

But the t62 and t55 have apfsds, more armour and are at 8.3, so why shouldnt the a1a1 be at 8.7 with apfsds?

They are slower and have worse apfsds rounds, the rounds in the A1A1 has amazing angled pen, infact they have better pen at 60 and 30 degrees then the Abrams and better pen at 60 degrees then the 80B and 64B.

[kamikazi21358]

Originally posted by Sir Det Mist:

Originally posted by ODINMASTER:

But the t62 and t55 have apfsds, more armour and are at 8.3, so why shouldnt the a1a1 be at 8.7 with apfsds?

They are slower and have worse apfsds rounds, the rounds in the A1A1 has amazing angled pen, infact they have better pen at 60 and 30 degrees then the Abrams and better pen at 60 degrees then the 80B and 64B.

^
Too OP for 8.3, 8.7 might be an option but it would be very strong. Just one other of the many examples showing just how compressed the BR range is right now.


Perhaps something like this can be done by adding the other leopards?

(- in front of it means in expandable subfilder)

Leopard 1 (A0) - 7.7 no change.
-Leopard 1A1 - 8.0, same ammo.
-Leopard A1A1 - 8.0-8.3, same ammo.

M48A2 - 8.0

Leopard 1A2 - 8.3, same ammo or very slightly better ammo (don’t have info on ammo options for L7, hard to find).
-Leopard 1A3 - 8.7 with better ammo, not APFSDS yet.

Leopard 1A4 - 9.0, APFSDS, because of year APFSDS would be unlockable sooner.
-Leopard 1A5 - have the best produced German Leopard 1 at a higher BR than 9.0, would be given best 105mm of the Cold War, working DU ammunition.


These tanks would be finally reperesented as well as they would be better: they get better armor (with little mobility difference) to defend against the new APCs and IFVs coming in. As well, they get better equipment too, by the 1A4 and 1A5 you have laser rangefinders and stuff on your side; and when it becomes a factor working electronic FCS as well. Sub folders would reduce the grind until Rank 6 has a linear research system like the rest of rank 1-5 (planes and tanks), which considering how many tanks are in the Cold War era I honestly think ‘Rank 6’ is a temporary thing - just for the CW there easily could be Rank 1-8 or so.