nerf 50 cals pls

[joemama]

rid de title mah dud

[joemama]

50 cals are op no mater what

[RAM AIR IV]

marsan41 a écrit :

50 cals are op no mater what

No not really, it also depends a lot on the skill of the player as well

[BejoBarokah]

RAM AIR IV a écrit :

marsan41 a écrit :

50 cals are op no mater what

No not really, it also depends a lot on the skill of the player as well

AFAIK right now .50 is the easiest weapon to use (accurate + high ammo count) with one of the best damage.

Just think about it, when Heavy Machine Gun is this easy and damaging, why would other nations at WW2 switch to cannon? even US itself considering the cannon at the war. If not for logistic, perhaps the US itself will switch to cannon too.

I mean, with those ammo count and War Thunder Damage, a plane that use HMG will able to kill more plane, multiplying fighting power. Yet, nations still try to switch to cannon.

Even the Brits skip the .50 too and choose 20mm over .50 (reference : https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-the-British-have-the-Browning-0-50-caliber-machine-gun-for-use-in-aircraft-in-WWII)

The Brits are quite stupid considering if .50 work like in-game right now. But .50 don't work like in-game right now.

Even after the war, nations tried to make shell that works like minengeschoss and improved it. Yet in this game minengeschoss is on par with HMG (if not worse due to accuracy and ammo count)

BejoBarokah a écrit :

Here, some data, it's quite new :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/8lsosc/data_mined_statistics_for_50_cal_equivalents/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/8lzlwg/datamined_statistics_for_20mm_cannons/?st=jhm8rrno&sh=546701fc

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Please note that below this is my opinion, which still can be wrong afterall. But please refrain from correcting it using "win stat". Win stat are affected by many factors (like plane fighting style, gamemode, player skill, teamwork, etc, etc). While we are talking about .50 only here

Also, please don't use "But [Insert Country] has already struggle so much". It's not that relevant to .50 damage. We already have BR for balance. Adjust the damage, then adjust the BR. Slight historical inaccuracy is still acceptable IMO, but these .50 is already gone too far.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can see from those data and discussion that Kinetic Energy damage doing more damage (than it should) when Chemical Energy damage doing less damage (than it should)

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No need to compare MG with cannon, let's try to compare MG to MG

.50 vs Mg 131, it's like Death Laser Beam vs Soggy Spaghetti Launcher

Even when Mg 131 velocity is low, it shouldn't just do hit-hit-hit as it's depend on Chemical Damage (filler), while .50, which get much Kinetic Energy, doing much-much-much more damage when hitting wing (AFAIK .50 chemical damage is quite similiar to Mg 131).

In Aircraft shell, the important thing is transferred energy, not raw energy. Some example is when .50 hit a wing, it'll release the chemical energy (Incidiary), and kinetic energy. The kinetic energy transferred to wing is just a small percentage, as the bullet pass thorugh and still having much kinetic energy. Meaning the transferred kinetic energy to wing of .50 cal to Mg 131 is quite similiar.

Ofc the above apply on aircraft sheet. Vital component, like pilot and engine, is a different matter. As they are quite armored (or protected) meaning kinetic energy needed to damage them is greater.

But we can see a lot of .50 CUTTING wings, aren't we? A lot more than Mg 131. When AFAIK Mg 131 should have more chemical damage. This isn't even talking about Mg 131 accuracy (yes it slow and short barreled, but <800m the spread shouldn't get that much)

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Also for german 20mm. It's already quite known that German 20mm using minengeschoss, which contain almost 2x HE filler than it's contemporary. Back to my point before that chemical energu should do more damage to aircraft sheet. So i wouldn't say it's OP. In fact i say it's Underperforming. The HE filler cost it's ballistic, as you can see it's not really accurate.

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TL;DR

Kinetic Energy damage (like on .50) should be lowered on Aircraft sheet, it's quite fine on vital component.

Chemical Energy damage (like minengeschoss shell) should be buffed on Aircraft sheet, on vital component it's doing less damage than kinetic energy tho, which i think it's fine for now.

[RAM AIR IV]

Ok

[joemama]

take 6 or 3 loked like 6 50cals to the wing wings rips of -_-

[DevilDaRebel]

RAM AIR IV a écrit :

DevilDaRebel a écrit :

I just had .50 cal destroy my barrel. Literally f6f just dive spam .50 cal and destroyed my panzer 4 G 75mm cannon barrel. WITH .50 CALS. Get this, .50 cal, bullets, can pen more reliably the top of tanks than CANNON designed to do this. What's wrong with this? Am i lying now too?

Well AP rounds in 50s can pen the tops of panzer 3s and 4s, it is a known fact, but a little know fact is that the can also pen the tops of t44s using AP as well

Fair enough, what about my 75mm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cannon barrel? How did .50 cal damage my cannon barrel on my tank to the point it was destroyed? Also, why the ♥♥♥♥ can .50 cal pen more reliably than cannons CANNONS CANNONS, with ammuntion design for high velocity? because with my 37- and 75mm It's always a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hit, never crit or let alone actual damage, and I mean shooting from the top.

[RAM AIR IV]

DevilDaRebel a écrit :

RAM AIR IV a écrit :

Well AP rounds in 50s can pen the tops of panzer 3s and 4s, it is a known fact, but a little know fact is that the can also pen the tops of t44s using AP as well

Fair enough, what about my 75mm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cannon barrel? How did .50 cal damage my cannon barrel on my tank to the point it was destroyed? Also, why the ♥♥♥♥ can .50 cal pen more reliably than cannons CANNONS CANNONS, with ammuntion design for high velocity? because with my 37- and 75mm It's always a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hit, never crit or let alone actual damage, and I mean shooting from the top.

Well it damages the barrel because it is a bullet and the cannon is only made out of steel, not actual armor

[DevilDaRebel]

RAM AIR IV a écrit :

DevilDaRebel a écrit :

Fair enough, what about my 75mm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cannon barrel? How did .50 cal damage my cannon barrel on my tank to the point it was destroyed? Also, why the ♥♥♥♥ can .50 cal pen more reliably than cannons CANNONS CANNONS, with ammuntion design for high velocity? because with my 37- and 75mm It's always a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hit, never crit or let alone actual damage, and I mean shooting from the top.

Well it damages the barrel because it is a bullet and the cannon is only made out of steel, not actual armor

Bruh, no .50 cal or bullet will damage an actual ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cannon of a tank... Steel IS armor
If you can't do that with cannon rounds, where the ♥♥♥♥ is the sense in doing it with bullets?.

[BejoBarokah]

DevilDaRebel a écrit :

RAM AIR IV a écrit :

Well AP rounds in 50s can pen the tops of panzer 3s and 4s, it is a known fact, but a little know fact is that the can also pen the tops of t44s using AP as well

Fair enough, what about my 75mm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cannon barrel? How did .50 cal damage my cannon barrel on my tank to the point it was destroyed? Also, why the ♥♥♥♥ can .50 cal pen more reliably than cannons CANNONS CANNONS, with ammuntion design for high velocity? because with my 37- and 75mm It's always a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hit, never crit or let alone actual damage, and I mean shooting from the top.

Idk this is true or not. But if this is true, than US tank will be OP as well. I mean on top of their tanks are equipped with browning. They will be make every cannon red in case the first shot failed.

Even with that being said, i still doubt this is true. Or pehaps true but just some rare occasion.

[RAM AIR IV]

BejoBarokah a écrit :

DevilDaRebel a écrit :

Fair enough, what about my 75mm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cannon barrel? How did .50 cal damage my cannon barrel on my tank to the point it was destroyed? Also, why the ♥♥♥♥ can .50 cal pen more reliably than cannons CANNONS CANNONS, with ammuntion design for high velocity? because with my 37- and 75mm It's always a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hit, never crit or let alone actual damage, and I mean shooting from the top.

Idk this is true or not. But if this is true, than US tank will be OP as well. I mean on top of their tanks are equipped with browning. They will be make every cannon red in case the first shot failed.

Even with that being said, i still doubt this is true. Or pehaps true but just some rare occasion.

Well 50 cal AP rounds damage cannons, heck I think all MGs damage cannons because that happens to me in my Flak bus

[BejoBarokah]

RAM AIR IV a écrit :

BejoBarokah a écrit :

Idk this is true or not. But if this is true, than US tank will be OP as well. I mean on top of their tanks are equipped with browning. They will be make every cannon red in case the first shot failed.

Even with that being said, i still doubt this is true. Or pehaps true but just some rare occasion.

Well 50 cal AP rounds damage cannons, heck I think all MGs damage cannons because that happens to me in my Flak bus

Well, but it take quite some time right? Cause if .50 can make cannon red easily, they'll just make their enemy barrel red then proceed

[DevilDaRebel]

BejoBarokah a écrit :

DevilDaRebel a écrit :

Fair enough, what about my 75mm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cannon barrel? How did .50 cal damage my cannon barrel on my tank to the point it was destroyed? Also, why the ♥♥♥♥ can .50 cal pen more reliably than cannons CANNONS CANNONS, with ammuntion design for high velocity? because with my 37- and 75mm It's always a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hit, never crit or let alone actual damage, and I mean shooting from the top.

Idk this is true or not. But if this is true, than US tank will be OP as well. I mean on top of their tanks are equipped with browning. They will be make every cannon red in case the first shot failed.

Even with that being said, i still doubt this is true. Or pehaps true but just some rare occasion.

This is 100% true, the chat at the time was going crazy aswell. It was a from a f6f diving on my panzer f2. I've never experienced this before untill the patch that buffed .50 cal.

[BejoBarokah]

DevilDaRebel a écrit :

BejoBarokah a écrit :

Idk this is true or not. But if this is true, than US tank will be OP as well. I mean on top of their tanks are equipped with browning. They will be make every cannon red in case the first shot failed.

Even with that being said, i still doubt this is true. Or pehaps true but just some rare occasion.

This is 100% true, the chat at the time was going crazy aswell. It was a from a f6f diving on my panzer f2. I've never experienced this before untill the patch that buffed .50 cal.

Well, if it's true. Then those .50 indeed have gone out too far

[DevilDaRebel]

BejoBarokah a écrit :

DevilDaRebel a écrit :

This is 100% true, the chat at the time was going crazy aswell. It was a from a f6f diving on my panzer f2. I've never experienced this before untill the patch that buffed .50 cal.

Well, if it's true. Then those .50 indeed have gone out too far

They are obviously overperforming. Like I did not think I'll ever be more convinced, but ♥♥♥♥ those .50 cal proved me wrong.

[Quincy Jones]

1 Strafe with F86 stock ammo belt .50's can kill a Cargo Ship lol. yes, the big cargo ships...


I also love the argument '>50's can go through concrete!!!'
That's all well and good, but if you're using AP, and not hiting vital components they will simply pencil through the airplane. It appears at times, the .50's hit like 30+mm HE rounds.

It does seem many cannons HE doesnt do enough damage. Japanese 75mm on a plane does nothing to a Cargo ship, while .50's will tear right through one. That's kinda messed up, IMO. Same with light pillboxes. The .50's will shred them, while 3+ hits with a 75mm will not get a kill.