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War Thunder > 综合讨论 > 主题详情
Arceal 2018 年 2 月 25 日 下午 11:50
Will there be more modern jets?
I don't know about you guys, but I would love to see a F4 Phantom and other later jets.

I know there is talk of afterburners getting added. So I don't see any reason that a F4 Phantom or even a A-10 Warthog. An A-10 would be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awesome too. It would make a good ground pounder for the new tanks. It is extremely durable with more than enough fire power. And before people start freaking out about a jet like that; It is not fast, even for a modern jet with a top speed of 439 MPH. (706 KPH) And it is a large jet.

I would like to hear what you guys think though. I don't see any reason modern jet's shouldn't be added.
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引用自 Schnittertm:
引用自 Eftwyrd：
the reasons against it as stated are fire-and-forget weapons might not be fun, there is no feedback for what you did wrong or could have done better as you suddenly just blow up out of nowhere

a technical reason was also that supersonic flight was not modeled in the physics engine so would require specific updates to the engine before it was even possible

as to whether it will happen the answer seems to be yes, last year anton (gaijins CEO) stated they would internally test to see if they could make it work and be fun. and as of the latest thundershow in response to a question about whether we will get the f4 phantom their answer was essentially its in internal testing

Well, the thing is, if you didn't pay attention in gun on gun fights in planes currently within the game you could also be blown up out of nowhere.

But lets get to guided missiles. The first versions of those were notoriously difficult to use and had a quite short range. The original versions of the Sidewinder would not hit the target if you didn't fire it directly up their engine exhaust. Even then, if the target was flying towards the sun, the missile might lock onto the heat signature from the sun and fly towards it. Then there is flares. Since Sidewinder missiles are WVR (Within Visual Range) missile, you should be able to spot your assailant just the same as with when they make a gun run. Since they would have to maneuver to get behind you, you could jinx their aim and, if modeled, you could use the sun to get scot free from the missile fired at you.

Then there are also counter measures like flares, that would help you to avoid a missile.

Only with later versions did IR short range AA missiles become really deadly. The upgrades to the their seekers, electronics and counter counter measures means that modern missiles like the AIM-9X or IRIS-T can not only recognize what target their are fired at from almost any angle, but can also recognize flares and disregard them. This, paired with upgrades to their agility due to thrust vectoring means, that these would be true fire and forget weapons, with a high hit probability.

To give pilots an ability to know when a missile was fired at them MWR or missile warning receivers were invented and deployed on aircraft to give the pilot a warning that a missile had been fired (not necessairly at his craft, but close enough to be a threat). This gives a pilot enough time to conduct evasive maneuvers (e.g. missile beaming) and employ counter measures.

We now could also discuss radar guided BVR missiles. Since these need a radar lock to follow either the entire flight or for part of the flight until the missiles internal sensors can take over and since a fighter radar is pulsing differently when locked on and getting ready to fire a missile, the radar warning receiver or RWR will give you a warning that a radar guided missile has been fired at you.

As with IR missiles, the first radar guided BVR missiles needed to be guided by the firing platform for the whole way. If it was forced to move out of position (e.g. due to attack or maneuvers of the fired upon platform) and therefore lose radar lock, the missile would not hit. This was rectified later with missiles that had their own small radar on board, however, even these needed to be fired either much closer to the target to use their own sensor for guidance or needed to be guided at least part of the way.

Radar jamming was also effective against some versions of the missiles, while later versions did implement upgrades for target position prediction in case of loss of data from the firing platform and home on jam capability, making use of a jammer a bad idea, as the missile would then go for the source of the jam.

Anyway, the TL;DR is that the first missiles were anything but fire and forget and the later versions, while they were much more fire and forget, had to content with warning systems and counter measures.

The only imbalance that would come into the game, would be mixing of jets with missiles and afterburner, against jets without missiles and/or no afterburner. However, just as with aerial gun combat, missile combat does have a lot of different tactics one could employ.
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Zalzany 2018 年 2 月 26 日 下午 11:03 
I mean hell now a days I get to hear fun stories like the one where a pilot flew a jet too low in the desert and a cops radar gun hit it, and it automatically targeted the squad car, as well as set off ass tons of alarms that it was being lit up by radar. Just like I knew guys in Aussie navy, and US navy with stories of the automatic gattling gun defenses not being set up right and firing on the ships own radar when activated as it went ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ when it was pinged by radar. Nice little thing people leave out, but really happens if you don't calibrate them right they will target freindly radars activly pinging them.
#46
Chaotic Harmony 2018 年 2 月 26 日 下午 11:28 
Honestly until dagor is updated to accurately model Transonic effects they won't have Supersonic planes; yes i can already hear the people go. "But X plane can go past the sound barrier"

Just because the HUD is displaying a number DOES NOT MEAN it's actually behaving the way it should at that number. You need to realize the mechanics behind SS flight are nuanced and have some interesting effects on planes; along with different equasions being used.

I'm not an aeronautical enginneer; but it's still pretty apperent to me as an enthusist that right now the engine cannot model the differences in airflow. As you approach the speed of sound the nose of the aircraft (Generally; it can be minimised) will droop; this is due to the shockwave forming in front of the aircraft.

Along with this the airflow over some control surfaces can completely seperate due to the speed; this is why the P-38 on later models had a dive brake. It actually changed the aerodynamics enough to get the elevator airflow (Along with slowing the plane)

Physical effects also arent modeled; the shaking and buffeting especially. Does this mean Dagor will never support supersonic flight? Absolutely not! But it must be updated and tested extensively before you will see it.
#47
Schnittertm 2018 年 2 月 27 日 上午 7:56 
引用自 Eftwyrd：
引用自 Schnittertm：

Using the AA-11 is only possible after you dodge all those AIM-120C coming your way. :P
because games ending before the sides even catch sight of each other would be so much fun /s

i want to see how earlier weapon systems work ingame before we jump the gun and introduce that kind of massacre

EDIT: also watch how for ballance they artificially enforce old US rules of engagment requiring visual identification of the target and completely neuter their long range missiles

But I did see you, or at least your blip on the radar screen. ;)

Anyway, at the time the AA-11 was in service on the MiG-29, the F-15C was already using its AIM-120C. The only question would be about the IFF and the NCTR capabilities of the F-15C's radar. Depending on the version and if the MiG-29 uses its radar or not (when in use, you have a nice 29 on your RWR with direction and strenght of signal) identification of a MiG-29 might be easy or hard. NCTR can, however, try to find out what you are targetting.

With earlier weapon systems and radars, on the other hand, visual recognition might not have been the worst idea, as many of those radars did not have any or only the most rudimentary NCTR capabilities. In the heat, chaos and confusion of combat you could never be too sure if what you are targeting is a friendly or enemy. Hence what drove the need for invention and introduction of IFF, NCTR and RWR with added capabilities. Before the introduction of those systems friendly fire was a likely possibility.

I can only image how well modern AESA radars can identify their targets, but with the increases in both signal processing and computer power, it isn't unreasonable to assume that they might already have capabilities to use NCTR to a level where they can identify almost any aircraft type just by locking it up.

If Gaijins past is something to go by, then I don't think they'll jump the gun and will, at first introduce the very unreliable first missile generations. I wonder if they would even want to do radar guided missiles, though, again, the first generations might be an interesting exercise, due to having to maintain a lock on the target until the missile hits. If then the targets wingman butts in.....
#48
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War Thunder > 综合讨论 > 主题详情
发帖日期： 2018 年 2 月 25 日 下午 11:50
回复数： 48

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