Thoughts on the 8.7 Maus

[rrubberr]

It isn't really a secret that Gaijin's matchmaking "leaves something to be desired," and some vehicles suffer more than others. I'm not here to complain though, just some thoughts.

The Maus is by no means unkillable, even when you get your own BR at 7.7 (with 220 spawncost), which makes getting uptiered even more bizarre.

Vehicles like the M103 and Object 120 have no problem penetrating you, thanks to their silly-pen APFSDS and HEAT-FS shells, that penetrate between 400 and 480 millimeters. They will go right through you even when angled. Vehicles like the M103, Conqueror, IS3, and even the IS6 will be difficult to penetrate at normal combat ranges, especially if they are intelligent players who are hull-down. The saving grace against certain vehicles like the T32E1 at long range is the ability of 128mm APHE rounds to ricochet and do unexpected things. For instance, ricocheting off the upper glacis and into the turret of a T32E1 (something that has happened twice now, neither time intentionally). Occasionally you see vehicles like the T29 or T34, maybe a Cent Mk. 3 or 10, occasionally a Japanese tank. Sometimes a meme tank like an M22 racing around. These are the only real easy kills you'll get, where the enemies have little to no chance of penetrating your frontal armor. It is in these engagements alone, which are by chance and probably against desperate players on their second or third tank, where you will feel like a 180 ton heavy tank.

More fun comes against vehicles at 8.7 (sarcasm). The leading difference between these and the vehicles at 7.7. is that they magically penetrate you no matter what. Everything has 400-650 millimeter penetration HEAT-FS. Most things have APFSDS with 350-400 millimeters of penetration. Lots of things have ATGMs with 600 millimeters of penetration, mouse guided and lots of fun to try and dodge (sarcasm). All of these things are much more mobile than you (pretty much a given for any vehicle except a Churchill or T95).

8.7 isn't the worst thing though, some things do RNG ricochet, and still you can angle your armor up to a non-pen sometimes. Some shells will enter / pass through without doing much damage since APHE is rare and the tank is large.

I've only played a few matches in the tank, but something I notice is my playstyle in uptiers is just that of a much less mobile RU 251. You quickly turn into a light tank when you don't get your own BR.

It's not really a surprise, though, that a WW2 tank is obsolete against things from the 1970's.

I dunno, do you guys have any suggestions. I just play the tank for the memes at this point, and accept that I won't be making much SL or RP.

[un.Casual]

Should be downtiered so it can't face atgms

[rrubberr]

Originally posted by un.Casual:

Should be downtiered so it can't face atgms

I wouldn't say downtier but maybe get it's own BR more often than not.

[KissHUN *;--;*]

Originally posted by King Cotton:

Originally posted by un.Casual:

Should be downtiered so it can't face atgms

I wouldn't say downtier but maybe get it's own BR more often than not.

easy to solve this problem, BR level restriction, which means the maus stay on 7.7 but cant be uptiered to 8.7, max uptier is 8.0 or 8.3(t-10m, js-7 level)

ofcourse its still going to face some heatfs and keyboard controlled atgm's, but at least not going to be reckt by apfsds shells from the flank in the first minute of the battle by fast mbt tanks.

[Dakota]

While I find it rather proper that a meme super heavy tank like the Maus that was never even finished fails against everything as it should, its really non competitive at its BR, struggles to fight even 7.0 heavies, and could probably do with a move down to 7.3 where it no longer sees the 8.7s that totally demolish it, and only has to worry about 8.3s.

Its main issue is really how armored is is while not being armored enough. It has so much side armor that if it goes too low then it can't even be killed via flanking yet still it has a turret face that can be penned by many rounds it sees. Then in the BRs there's mixes of tanks with HEATFS that go right through it fine at the same BR as tanks with only APHE and APCR available that have no hope of getting through it.

This tends to be the issue of heavy tanks in general *especially* ones where they have lots of side armor. They get to a point where they're practically unkillable or either they get penned by everything while being slow and unable to pen most things.

Dropping it to something like 7.0 would mean very few 6.0 tanks could possibly pen it, and only then with APCR, and even then in a 8.0 uptier it faces things that easily punch through it with HEATFS and APFSDS rounds. There's really no winning with this full +-1 BR spread.

[rrubberr]

Originally posted by Dakota:

While I find it rather proper that a meme super heavy tank like the Maus that was never even finished fails against everything as it should, its really non competitive at its BR, struggles to fight even 7.0 heavies, and could probably do with a move down to 7.3 where it no longer sees the 8.7s that totally demolish it, and only has to worry about 8.3s.

Its main issue is really how armored is is while not being armored enough. It has so much side armor that if it goes too low then it can't even be killed via flanking yet still it has a turret face that can be penned by many rounds it sees. Then in the BRs there's mixes of tanks with HEATFS that go right through it fine at the same BR as tanks with only APHE and APCR available that have no hope of getting through it.

This tends to be the issue of heavy tanks in general *especially* ones where they have lots of side armor. They get to a point where they're practically unkillable or either they get penned by everything while being slow and unable to pen most things.

Dropping it to something like 7.0 would mean very few 6.0 tanks could possibly pen it, and only then with APCR, and even then in a 8.0 uptier it faces things that easily punch through it with HEATFS and APFSDS rounds. There's really no winning with this full +-1 BR spread.

Yeah, I suppose I understand what everyone means by power-creep now. I mean even at 5.3 the silly HEAT-FS on the STABILIZED PT-76 will penetrate the sides pretty easily.

Some people recommended matchmaker before, and a seperate matchmaker with HEAT-FS, which might make sense as tanks like the M103, centurion Mk.10, and FV4005, as well as the American T29-34 could still deal plenty of damage without lol-penning you at all ranges anywhere, but that will obviously never happen.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by King Cotton:

Originally posted by Dakota:

While I find it rather proper that a meme super heavy tank like the Maus that was never even finished fails against everything as it should, its really non competitive at its BR, struggles to fight even 7.0 heavies, and could probably do with a move down to 7.3 where it no longer sees the 8.7s that totally demolish it, and only has to worry about 8.3s.

Its main issue is really how armored is is while not being armored enough. It has so much side armor that if it goes too low then it can't even be killed via flanking yet still it has a turret face that can be penned by many rounds it sees. Then in the BRs there's mixes of tanks with HEATFS that go right through it fine at the same BR as tanks with only APHE and APCR available that have no hope of getting through it.

This tends to be the issue of heavy tanks in general *especially* ones where they have lots of side armor. They get to a point where they're practically unkillable or either they get penned by everything while being slow and unable to pen most things.

Dropping it to something like 7.0 would mean very few 6.0 tanks could possibly pen it, and only then with APCR, and even then in a 8.0 uptier it faces things that easily punch through it with HEATFS and APFSDS rounds. There's really no winning with this full +-1 BR spread.

Yeah, I suppose I understand what everyone means by power-creep now. I mean even at 5.3 the silly HEAT-FS on the STABILIZED PT-76 will penetrate the sides pretty easily.

Some people recommended matchmaker before, and a seperate matchmaker with HEAT-FS, which might make sense as tanks like the M103, centurion Mk.10, and FV4005, as well as the American T29-34 could still deal plenty of damage without lol-penning you at all ranges anywhere, but that will obviously never happen.

One of the biggest issues with HEAT is that its hard to stop when you're in a big tank. With smaller tanks its as simple as hiding behind a fence and shooting them back with solid shot, but there's no fences tall enough for a Maus in this game.

[Ouroboros]

As someone else said, reducing the BR spread to 0.7 would help a lot of heavy tanks. The Maus is far from the only vehicle with this issue, the IS-3, Jagdtiger and others certainly come to mind. BR decompression would also go a long way to see such issues.

Tanks like the Maus should not be completely taken away from seeing HEAT-FS since it's often their main counter, but seeing tanks from several decades later than it (and for other heavies) ideally shouldn't happen as much as it does. As for right now, the Maus could go to 7.3 but anything lower than that isn't an option unless we want it to club (I don't).

[rrubberr]

Originally posted by Dakota:

Originally posted by King Cotton:

Yeah, I suppose I understand what everyone means by power-creep now. I mean even at 5.3 the silly HEAT-FS on the STABILIZED PT-76 will penetrate the sides pretty easily.

Some people recommended matchmaker before, and a seperate matchmaker with HEAT-FS, which might make sense as tanks like the M103, centurion Mk.10, and FV4005, as well as the American T29-34 could still deal plenty of damage without lol-penning you at all ranges anywhere, but that will obviously never happen.

One of the biggest issues with HEAT is that its hard to stop when you're in a big tank. With smaller tanks its as simple as hiding behind a fence and shooting them back with solid shot, but there's no fences tall enough for a Maus in this game.

Maybe patch 1.90 should be the "bigger fences" patch

In all seriousness, though, finding cover is a huge issue on the 8.7 "Fields of" type maps.

[Aeternull]

Honestly I don't have much trouble with the Maus. Every since I've unlocked it, I've been having ton of fun and kills than I did in a long time.

If you want the Maus to love you, you have to love her first. She's not immortal and not perfect. She's chubby with big weak boobs. She's also shy, so going head on is a no no. She's also hot so everyone will try to hit on her.

Playing around these weaknesses will give you a monster.

[Obamenau]

Never take it out in an uptier
Never take it out on a big map

Then the maus still can be fun.