Disappointed with heavy tanks

[Rabcor]

I got the KV-1, historically it should have a 90mm armor on the front but it's only 75mm in-game, even then though, when the KV was made it was practically immune to all opposing tanks, nothing could penetrate their thick 75mm armor for a short while until the opposing countries developed stronger cannons.

In world of tanks, with the same tank, you could feel that your heavy tank was in fact heavily armored (and actually slightly overpowered in this specific case) and in general, tanks are actually... you know... tanky.

In war thunder however, I get the KV-1 and what happens? I get 1 shot. I have repeatedly been annihilated in just 1 shot through my (apparently flimsy) 75mm armor, at which point I start to wonder if there's any actual benefit to be in a heavy tank over that faster light tank, at least the light tanks are harder to hit, so flimsy armor or no doesn't matter much there.

I even once did this, I shot a kv-1 straight through it's front amror and it was destroyed. I just thought I got some kind of really lucky shot, but apparently that wasn't the case, the heavy tanks in this game apparently only have 1 difference from medium and light tanks.

They're slower. That's it. You see higher numbers for the armor rating in the menus, but apparently it doesn't make a sliver of a difference in-game.

It just doesn't seem right that a 'heavy' tank can so easily be destroyed in a single shot, i've been 1 shot through the turret, sides and front. If there was one thing I expected of a heavy tank, it's that with very rare exceptions it should be able to take 2 or 3 shots before being in any real trouble.

[Slyke]

It's impossible to make heavy armor truly viable in a realistic game without making tanks overpowered. In WoT they play around with numbers however they want, in WT that doesn't happen. And yet heavies are still the second class citizens in WoT as well (because of "golden" ammo), maybe even more so than in WT (at least in realistic and sim battles). The only reason why the can feel "tanky" in WoT is because you can't actually aim there.

Also there did you get that 90mm number? KV-1 hulls had 75mm at most.

[torindechoza]

i see some people dont get in the other player's shoes.
Imagine a heavy tank on the opposite team that you cant penetrate but it can pen you. At the same br. You would be complaining.

You have vehicles with thin armor and good guns like the M10 and various 75mm cannon germans that can pen. Usually nations get at least 1 good gun at a given br. For example the SU85 at russian 4.3

It is the way it is. Armor in itself is not enough unless you understand the angling mechanic. If your armor is flat it will be weaker vs the tank rotated in a given angle. Also must understand the distance effectiveness of it. An angled KV1 at 500 mts is much harder to pen that a non angled one at point blank.

Use the protection analysis. You can test for weak sides. I can tell you that the lower sides of the KV1 are weak. Weaker than the back side.

[Gishank]

WT takes a more authentic and realistic approach to armoured combat compared to WOT. If an appropriate shell penetrates your vehicle and has sufficient explosive potential, it will take out your vehicle regardless if its classification. It's why more modern tank design has gone down the route of compartmentalising vulnerable components to avoid catastrophic failure.

Though in most cases heavy tanks do have increased armour in some capacity, it doesn't mean that they are indestructible. Every vehicle is different, handles differently, and has its own strengths and weaknesses.

[Ponto]

NYET

[Rei [Pwner]]

Out of curiosity, OP, which KV-1 are you using? I would assume you are referring to the first KV-1, which is the KV-1 1939 variant without the Welded plates over the hull. the KV-1 1941 variant has a 100mm frontal armor thanks to the additional 25mm welded plate at the front and some at the side.

And let's not talk about the KV-1E/Finnish KV-1B... One of the most armored KV tank in the game.......

[Rabcor]

Originally posted by Curst:

Also there did you get that 90mm number? KV-1 hulls had 75mm at most.

Wikipedia.

[Rei [Pwner]]

Originally posted by Rabcor:

Wikipedia.

All right... that might be a bit... dubious
Also, looking at the World of Tanks version of the KV-1, in default, the Hull has an armor thickness of 75/75/70.
The Turret though, is 90/75/75

[Rabcor]

Originally posted by Gishank:

Though in most cases heavy tanks do have increased armour in some capacity, it doesn't mean that they are indestructible. Every vehicle is different, handles differently, and has its own strengths and weaknesses.

I never said it should be indestructible, just a bit harder to take down than lighter tanks... I.e. it should be able to survive more than 1 round.

[Slyke]

They are harder take down. That doesn't mean they can survive properly aimed hits, it means it takes more time to aim. If your opponent is REALLY bad that time will include a poorly placed hit that results in a bounce and subsequent reload. If he isn't that bad, he'll aim properly before shooting. You can increase that time even further with good positioning.

[Rei [Pwner]]

Originally posted by Rabcor:

I never said it should be indestructible, just a bit harder to take down than lighter tanks... I.e. it should be able to survive more than 1 round.

Problem is, most, if not all engagements in War Thunder Ground Forces are at the average range of.... 600 to 800 meters judging from the last ten games that I have played Ground Forces which may or may not be correct... I think.....

So tanks like the Pz.IV F2's gun would still be able to penetrate the KV-1 at the front due to the Pz.Gr 39 being able to penetrate at flat armor of 123mm to 110mm from 500 to 1000 meters...

These may or may not be opinion based... so take it with a grain of salt

[Rei [Pwner]]

Looking at the Wikipedia article of the KV family, the one that mentions of the KV having a 90mm Frontal Armor would be the KV-1 1941 variant... which we have ingame as the third KV-1 variant in the series. Thing is, the 90mm Frontal Armor is at the Turret. The Hull is still 75mm with an additional 25mm Welded Plates on it, bringing the Hull Frontal Armor to 100mm.

I generally think the OP is using the KV-1 1939 variant, hence why the complaint... I think...

[HebrewHammertime]

How much money have you paid into Gaijin/Warthunder? How many GEs have you bought?

[Psycho Yuri]

KV-1 (Zis-5) Is the best (free to play) KV tank you can get.
Literally a beast in br 4.3 if you play it properly. Even in a full uptier I play good with it. I bounce huge amount of shells all the time.

Look at this replay of mine yesterday, how much I get shot at and I survive it all. Standing out there on the hill on the capture point. https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/42893292925019579

[Furina De Fontaine]

KV-1s are already hard enough to take down, if you're having issues with its armor, then that's a l2p issue.

[HebrewHammertime]

Originally posted by ✯Σ✯ Dawncloud:

KV-1s are already hard enough to take down, if you're having issues with its armor, then that's a l2p issue.

ITs not a L2P (poor answer and not really constructive) its more of a learn 2 pay. The more money you pay into gaijin, the more of a buff/nerf youll get ingame. Gaijin is back to stealth nerfing/buffing. Right now its US, UK and Germany at same BR.(4.3 and Higher BR),