How do you get better at air realistic battles?

[doughboy9403]

Ok guys, I'm at the point where I am literally about to quit this game. Let me give you the backstory/details.

So I've had war thunder for awhile, since 2014. Used to play here and there, but never really got into it much until recently. So I decided to play mostly RB with aircraft, since I'm not really into ships or tanks. I've progressed decently down the American line because that's what I decided to work with and I've stuck with it. I like realistic battles because I don't like the "any plane against any plane" style of AB and prefer to come across a smaller variety of planes. I like knowing what I'm likely to come up against. This past week I've flown almost exclusively my P-38E and managed to get a few upgrades with it as well. I know how to BnZ, I've done all the research and know enough about the plane to know how it handles. (spoiler alert, not the best). Regardless, I refuse to fly anything else I have unlocked because nothing else has 1.) a 20mm, 2.) nose mounted guns, or 3.) a level 41 crew on it. I get shot down EVERY single game in a matter of minutes, usually after climbing from my first (always unsuccessful) dive. I am looking to get better with this particular series of aircraft (I also have an XP-38-G) and have identified my issues below, which is what I am asking for help with.

Firstly my shooting. I suck. It's realistic so there's no aim indicator, but I assign my 50 cals to my main mouse button and my 20mm to my MB5, that way I don't waste precious 20mm ammo trying to gauge distance/accuracy. Regardless, I never even score a single HIT on enemy aircraft, even at ranges of less than 1000ft. I literally don't know what I can do to get better. Either I've been super unlucky and constantly matched against the best pilots in the world who can outmanuever all my bullets, or I just suck at shooting. I think it's the latter. I fire in small bursts because my guns overheat pretty quick, but I literally can't hit enemy fighters so it's extremely frustrating. FYSA I don't have different belts unlocked I don't think. I shot down a slow moving bomber yesterday, but took severe damage from the turrets in return and that has been my only kill ever with this aircraft so I don't think it counts. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. It's been a week and I'm not getting any better so I must be doing something wrong.

Second, dis-engaging after a dive. I am usually as situationally aware as i can be before I dive to reduce the chances of an ambush. I don't ever try to turn fight because I'm not stupid. After I dive and I miss, and I realize my energy is about to go away, I throw it in WEP and start climbing again, which always results in 1 or 2 fighters tailing and shooting at me. I've tried both hammerheading and less dramatic climbs. In both scenarios, EVERY time, I get shot down before I can get away. I'm talking about a variety of different planes, not just 109's (although they are the worst) It makes no sense because I have more energy than them and should be able to escape. Apparently I only get matched against snipers. On top of this, I am limited to how much of an energy advantage I can have on my lower-altitude enemies because heaven-forbid I go above 460 for a second, my wings will fall off instantly. Finally, I learned pretty quick that this particular plane loses what energy it does have VERY fast, severely limiting the time you have after dive before you have to start climbing again. So any advice or help whatsoever with any of these things would be greatly appreciated.

[MaDeuce]

For your aiming problem, use a phrase like "Die enemy" to judge your leading distance. For example, a target at 300m turning to the left, you would fire in a vector that the enemy would be in the time it takes you to say "Die enemy". It helps a lot with timing the velocity of your rounds. Play around with the idea until you're accurately leading your targets.

In RB you still get a big red ring around you for everyone in the area to see. Any aircraft that is faster and more maneuverable than you can dictate the fight from the second you pop up on their screen. It's not like in simulator, where you can force mistakes. All a 109 has to do is follow the big red circle and control their engines, and you're dead. It's not reasonable to believe that you'll ever be able to consistently go toe to toe with them in a P-38 unless it's a head on, or they're terrible.

The 38 is a fantastic plane in simulator, but not so much in RB unless you have a dedicated wing man to clear your 6 after a run.

[doughboy9403]

Originally posted by MaDeuce:

For your aiming problem, use a phrase like "Die enemy" to judge your leading distance. For example, a target at 300m turning to the left, you would fire in a vector that the enemy would be in the time it takes you to say "Die enemy". It helps a lot with timing the velocity of your rounds. Play around with the idea until you're accurately leading your targets.

In RB you still get a big red ring around you for everyone in the area to see. Any aircraft that is faster and more maneuverable than you can dictate the fight from the second you pop up on their screen. It's not like in simulator, where you can force mistakes. All a 109 has to do is follow the big red circle and control their engines, and you're dead. It's not reasonable to believe that you'll ever be able to consistently go toe to toe with them in a P-38 unless it's a head on, or they're terrible.

The 38 is a fantastic plane in simulator, but not so much in RB unless you have a dedicated wing man to clear your 6 after a run.

Alright, thank you for the tip with aiming, I'll definitely try that. That feedback about not being able to force mistakes...honestly that's news to me. I did a bit of research on gaijin forums before and people were saying you can hammerhead with it in RB, but I'll take your word for it and try it out in sim and see if it feels different. I'm starting to lose faith in the plane for sure. Full disclosure though, I definitely don't expect to be able to go toe-to-toe with 109's at the same battle rating every time. I try to steer clear of them, they are just really good planes. I'd just like to be able to BnZ properly and I feel like im doing it wrong since I get shot down without fail every time. Players are smart though, most of the time they wont engage me when I've got altitude advantage. It's always when I dive that I get screwed.

[Slyke]

First of all, and you probably already know it's coming, you're giving yourself a handicap with that plane. It isn't good for learning. The entire US airforce is not very good for learning (most of their fighters require intermediate-to-advanced level of teamplay and fare poorly alone even in the hands of experienced players), but their heavy fighters are particularly ill-suited because they aren't very flexible. If you want a better time learning, pick a single engine fighter (use the same crew slot, you only need one for realistic air battles anyway) or better yet switch to bf.109, Spitfires, or any Japanese fighters.

But that alone obviously doesn't excuse your accuracy. There is no magic trick, you'll just need to practice. I recommend to play in arcade mode for a while to get a better understanding of how to lead the target with different guns. Arcade can be an annoying mess, but you'll learn much faster with a lead indicator.

I also don't think it's a good idea to use LMB for only smaller caliber guns (American .50 cals are very powerful by the way, you shouldn't underestimate them, meanwhile their early 20 mils are capricious as hell). I find it more logical to have full burst on LMB (to more easily get the most of it when you don't have a lot of time on target) and small / large caliber guns on additional buttons, but I guess it's a matter of preference.

[torindechoza]

i suggest you check jengar's yt channel

[StormingHorizon]

Mostly what Curst said. Allied planes, especially heavy fighters, are not the best for learning aiming as they all require a higher skill level then their axis counterparts(with the exception of the spitfires and things like the buffalo). I'd recommend the italian or japanese tree for easy learning, as with the italians you get more manuverability and ammo then their german counterparts and its very easy to stay on someones tail in a zero. My advice for aiming would be to lead far ahead of your target and begin to lead less until you begin to get hits. Once you are reasonably confident with that you can begin hitting with the first few shots, which is essential for any heavy fighter.

You may be boom and zooming wrong as well? In your post you said that you begin to climb after an engagement. The p38's, especially the early ones, do not have good vertical energy retention. Pretty much any axis fighter will be able to outclimb even with an energy disadvantage. What they can't do is outspeed you in a straight line, (with the exception of fw190s's and a few others). This leads to a more horizontal boom and zoom style, where you have to be very cautious as to not lose enough altitude to allow people to match your speed by diving. Choosing engagements as to always have an escape route is essential in a heavy fighter, especially in one that does not have defensive armament.

Finally, I just want to reiterate that if you do want to slog it out and learn the hard way, never underestimate the power of american .50's. They are arguably the best guns at range for low tier and can absolutly shred planes if you can get on target. The early american 20mils on the other hand can be very underwhelming, with low ammo capacity and very mediocre accuracy. If you want to continue to play american give their mainline fighters a chance, you'll be surprised how much a few m2's can do. If you get good practice with manuvers and aiming you can come back to the p38 as it is not half bad in rb, especially the earlier ones.

[D3stiny]

XP-38-G and the p-38 tend to compress quite fast. maybe that's the reason its hard for you to aim. they are great planes but you HAVE to be higher than your enemy to make them work like they should. dont quit if you dind fun in this game, if not its okay to take a break. the XP-38-G is faster the most of the planes in its br, you should bait for your team if you have 2 on you

[Jan Zizka of Trocnov]

Just a big FYI for you,you shouldn't not use planes because they lack a 20mm because the M2 Browning is easily the best aircraft gun in the game. Once you get the aim for them down the P-47s and P-51s will tear enemy planes to tiny little pieces.

There's a custom battle mode you can use to fight against bot planes to practice your aim, which can help ya quite a bit. Make sure to check it out:)

[doughboy9403]

Originally posted by czartrak:

Just a big FYI for you,you shouldn't not use planes because they lack a 20mm because the M2 Browning is easily the best aircraft gun in the game. Once you get the aim for them down the P-47s and P-51s will tear enemy planes to tiny little pieces.

There's a custom battle mode you can use to fight against bot planes to practice your aim, which can help ya quite a bit. Make sure to check it out:)

Yeah I tried that, set the bots to 2 but there was nothing there when I spawned in. Idk If I set it up right.

[doughboy9403]

Alright guys, I appreciate all the feedback. I'm probably going to practice with some easier-handling planes to get the hang of it, these multi-engine heavy fighters just arent doing it for me. And I got the .50 cals are good...wasn't trying to say they arent. I just didn't realize the early american 20mm weren't great. Thanks for the advice everyone

[doughboy9403]

Originally posted by D3stiny:

XP-38-G and the p-38 tend to compress quite fast. maybe that's the reason its hard for you to aim. they are great planes but you HAVE to be higher than your enemy to make them work like they should. dont quit if you dind fun in this game, if not its okay to take a break. the XP-38-G is faster the most of the planes in its br, you should bait for your team if you have 2 on you

Yeah I have huge issues with compression.

[doughboy9403]

Originally posted by StormingHorizon:

Mostly what Curst said. Allied planes, especially heavy fighters, are not the best for learning aiming as they all require a higher skill level then their axis counterparts(with the exception of the spitfires and things like the buffalo). I'd recommend the italian or japanese tree for easy learning, as with the italians you get more manuverability and ammo then their german counterparts and its very easy to stay on someones tail in a zero. My advice for aiming would be to lead far ahead of your target and begin to lead less until you begin to get hits. Once you are reasonably confident with that you can begin hitting with the first few shots, which is essential for any heavy fighter.

You may be boom and zooming wrong as well? In your post you said that you begin to climb after an engagement. The p38's, especially the early ones, do not have good vertical energy retention. Pretty much any axis fighter will be able to outclimb even with an energy disadvantage. What they can't do is outspeed you in a straight line, (with the exception of fw190s's and a few others). This leads to a more horizontal boom and zoom style, where you have to be very cautious as to not lose enough altitude to allow people to match your speed by diving. Choosing engagements as to always have an escape route is essential in a heavy fighter, especially in one that does not have defensive armament.

Finally, I just want to reiterate that if you do want to slog it out and learn the hard way, never underestimate the power of american .50's. They are arguably the best guns at range for low tier and can absolutly shred planes if you can get on target. The early american 20mils on the other hand can be very underwhelming, with low ammo capacity and very mediocre accuracy. If you want to continue to play american give their mainline fighters a chance, you'll be surprised how much a few m2's can do. If you get good practice with manuvers and aiming you can come back to the p38 as it is not half bad in rb, especially the earlier ones.

Yeah, I have kind of learned that the hard way. It's more of a BnR than a BnZ, and even then it's not always easy to get away, especially with FW190's and 109's all over the place. They're like all I see, and this plane dumps energy pretty bad.

On paper it's supposed to perform rather well at 16000ft or more, it just takes forever to get there.

[doughboy9403]

Originally posted by Curst:

First of all, and you probably already know it's coming, you're giving yourself a handicap with that plane. It isn't good for learning. The entire US airforce is not very good for learning (most of their fighters require intermediate-to-advanced level of teamplay and fare poorly alone even in the hands of experienced players), but their heavy fighters are particularly ill-suited because they aren't very flexible. If you want a better time learning, pick a single engine fighter (use the same crew slot, you only need one for realistic air battles anyway) or better yet switch to bf.109, Spitfires, or any Japanese fighters.

But that alone obviously doesn't excuse your accuracy. There is no magic trick, you'll just need to practice. I recommend to play in arcade mode for a while to get a better understanding of how to lead the target with different guns. Arcade can be an annoying mess, but you'll learn much faster with a lead indicator.

I also don't think it's a good idea to use LMB for only smaller caliber guns (American .50 cals are very powerful by the way, you shouldn't underestimate them, meanwhile their early 20 mils are capricious as hell). I find it more logical to have full burst on LMB (to more easily get the most of it when you don't have a lot of time on target) and small / large caliber guns on additional buttons, but I guess it's a matter of preference.

Alright, I'll take your advice. Thank you

[doughboy9403]

You all were right, the american .50 cals are REALLY good. I decided to give arcade a chance....I love it and I hate it, because it makes leading/aiming a hell of a lot easier, but it also makes it so that all planes are equal essentially in that you never have to worry about overheating, overspeeding (therefore dont have to worry about having too much energy) and it's basically just a totally different experience. Plus you dont have to worry about running out of ammo. It's definitely been a great practice tool I'd say, but I dont think it'll do much with helping learn the limitations of specific aircraft. Anyway, just wanted to drop a quick update.

[Mr. Midori]

Try using the P-40s, P-51, and P-39s for learning at low tier, the P-38s are hard to use well, especially in RB. Also, tracer belts will help improve your aiming.

[Tenko]

Originally posted by doughboy9403:

-Ok I know how to BnZ,

-I never even score a single HIT on enemy aircraft, even at ranges of less than 1000ft.

-I fire in small bursts because my guns overheat pretty quick,

-You might know "HOW" but I dont think you know "Should" or "When"

-Kills at 1000ft are fairly skilled shots,usually turn into memes and Getting in close, 200-500. In il2-GB (real ww2 simulator) Most kills are at 350m

-Your guns might over heat, but if you dont get the kill You just signed a death wish.

It sounds alot like you dont understand OTHER planes capabilities to your own planes.

I would highly suggest watching other players play the aircraft your using and doing EXTREMELY well in it.

109s will be your main foe for most of the game.