[Question] BF109 F4 vs P47d-28

[Nabe Gewell]

Quick question, I just faught a battle in which I wanted to go for a P47d-28 which ran from me, he was roughly 2km aways and running while we were at the same speed. Then i started to climb and follow him but he climbed a good bit better than i did. I don't understand how he outclimbed me at the same starting speed.
Btw i had gunpots equiped but i shouldn't have affected my climb that hard.

[Φ Baron of Noobs]

maybe you were wrong and he was faster so he could climb

[Blitzkrieg Wulf]

Think gunpods affect flight performance more than you're currently giving them credit for.

Don't have WT open in front of me, but chances say you had some other things working against you. 109's always seem to have overheating issues. P-47's can use WEP for very long periods of time. US planes can also zoom-climb pretty well, mostly due to their weight.

If at altitude, it's entirely possible the P-47 was simply the faster plane with more horsepower. Think 109Fs have (Something like) 1300 HP, and the P-47D has ~2,400 HP.

"clean" configuration for a 109F4 is ~400 mph @ 6km. My guess is you were somewhere around 380 mph @ 6km. P-47 is rated for something like 430 @ 9km, probably close to 400 @ 6km.


TL;DR, pretty sure your gunpods and lack of being able to WEP as long as the P-47 is the issue you ran into.

[Φ Baron of Noobs]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Blitzkrieg Wulf:

Think gunpods affect flight performance more than you're currently giving them credit for.

Don't have WT open in front of me, but chances say you had some other things working against you. 109's always seem to have overheating issues. P-47's can use WEP for very long periods of time. US planes can also zoom-climb pretty well, mostly due to their weight.

If at altitude, it's entirely possible the P-47 was simply the faster plane with more horsepower. Think 109Fs have (Something like) 1300 HP, and the P-47D has ~2,400 HP.

"clean" configuration for a 109F4 is ~400 mph @ 6km. My guess is you were somewhere around 380 mph @ 6km. P-47 is rated for something like 430 @ 9km, probably close to 400 @ 6km.


TL;DR, pretty sure your gunpods and lack of being able to WEP as long as the P-47 is the issue you ran into.

i still dont think gunpods would have affected it really hard and i have both planes i just think p47 is fast even so in a dive and also to OP. Was it in realistic or arcade that happened?

[Blitzkrieg Wulf]

Well, one can see just how much gun pods affect performance in RB in the hangar. They (likely) don't affect speed a whole lot, but because the weight is out on the wings, it will suffer roll-rate issues from the position of the mass, and it will suffer from climb-related issues due to what is likely +100-200 kgs to airframe.

Again, don't have access to the game at this moment in time. Could be wrong, but in the past that is why I have (almost) never ran with gunpods. they had too big of a performance hit for me to be comfortable having them.

[Φ Baron of Noobs]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Blitzkrieg Wulf:

Well, one can see just how much gun pods affect performance in RB in the hangar. They (likely) don't affect speed a whole lot, but because the weight is out on the wings, it will suffer roll-rate issues from the position of the mass, and it will suffer from climb-related issues due to what is likely +100-200 kgs to airframe.

Again, don't have access to the game at this moment in time. Could be wrong, but in the past that is why I have (almost) never ran with gunpods. they had too big of a performance hit for me to be comfortable having them.

gunpods are good to go bz or fight bombers but without gunpods they are more effective and agile and can even be in pair with spitfires

[Blitzkrieg Wulf]

Bf-109F4 w/ gunpods: ~405 mph @ 6km, ~3700 ft/min climb rate with WEP, falls to maybe 390 mph and 3300 ft/min without it. (Since you can't exactly infinite-wep with a 109, at least, the last time I played one).

Clean P-47D-28: ~420 mph @ 6km, ~3250 ft/min. Can use WEP basically indefinitely.

Before fuel taken is accounted for ^^. P-47 is going to outrun a Bf-109 F4, it would even out-run a F4 in clean trim. Maybe not out-climb, but you have to realize that past a certain altitude you're playing a loosing game because the higher you go, the better the P-47's performance is going to be over yours.

I haven't the time to pull real time data out of the game for comparison, but all the historical records and your experience point to the same answer. The listed climb rates on the P-47 stat cards have always been lower than actual, especially at lower altitudes.

Essentially what you have are flying race cars. While power to weight plays part in acceleration, the guy with the bigger motor can go faster given enough room. Since he's trying to run away from you it's more or less the equivalent of a tens-of-kilometers drag race. Having any extra weight and protrusions from your aircraft, with a smaller motor, is fighting a loosing battle.

[Φ Baron of Noobs]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Blitzkrieg Wulf:

Bf-109F4 w/ gunpods: ~405 mph @ 6km, ~3700 ft/min climb rate with WEP, falls to maybe 390 mph and 3300 ft/min without it. (Since you can't exactly infinite-wep with a 109, at least, the last time I played one).

Clean P-47D-28: ~420 mph @ 6km, ~3250 ft/min. Can use WEP basically indefinitely.

Before fuel taken is accounted for ^^. P-47 is going to outrun a Bf-109 F4, it would even out-run a F4 in clean trim. Maybe not out-climb, but you have to realize that past a certain altitude you're playing a loosing game because the higher you go, the better the P-47's performance is going to be over yours.

I haven't the time to pull real time data out of the game for comparison, but all the historical records and your experience point to the same answer. The listed climb rates on the P-47 stat cards have always been lower than actual, especially at lower altitudes.

Essentially what you have are flying race cars. While power to weight plays part in acceleration, the guy with the bigger motor can go faster given enough room. Since he's trying to run away from you it's more or less the equivalent of a tens-of-kilometers drag race. Having any extra weight and protrusions from your aircraft, with a smaller motor, is fighting a loosing battle.

well, if a p47 is a flying race car, then definely it would be a mustang
heck i even call the p47d a taxi fighter because it sounds like a big taxi from the 50s