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Because were still at Light Cruisers and are just now scratching the surface of Heavy Cruisers. There still has to be room for all:
-Heavy Cruisers
-Battle Cruisers
-Battleships (including Super Heavy BB's)
-Subs(?)
-Post war ship designs IE Missile Cruisers/Destroyers
-more designs from already established hull classes IE DD/CL/small boats etc etc
If we need more BR's we just go higher. Not everything has to fit in 1.0-10.0
Oh yea cus you know, lets have the BR extend to 20.0 while planes cap off at 10.0
I'd sure love to try and deal with a T-2/F-100/FJ-4B in a ♥♥♥ cruiser with 1930's flak cannons. Yea thats really gonna turn out well you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥.
Amen.
A: because we need room for more ships/hull classes
Retort: ThEn iNcReAsE ThE bR SpEcTrUm
It's like this hasn't been discussed ever; Gaijin says its not going to happen since it slows the MM down. So adding in your "what IF we" BS into the mix doesn't add into it. With that logic, what if instead you were just plain wrong in assuming the BR is compressed and just needs to stop complaining.
And there is literally 1 con ever of increasing the BR spectrum, and that is
Yes, it will slow MM down. Perhaps. But,
1. What also slows down MM is nobody playing naval, considering how bad it is. I would rather go play actually good gamemodes where boats with 1-2 machine guns don’t fight other boats with literal tank cannons firing projectiles that can kill boats multiple kilometers away in just a few shots. Maybe the ‘if you build it they will come’ logic applies, ‘if you make it better they will play it.’
2. By what extent? 30% more queue time? 40%? 70%? 100% more? And is it worth it?
Take tanks for an example. I have yet, ever, seen a person tell me that they would rather have a 40 second queue time where they fight Leopard 2A5s in a T-64A or a Chieftain Mk.10, over a 1 minute 10 second queue time where tanks fight more appropriate opponents, such as a T-64A being uptiered to fight M1 Abrams maximum, and not M1A1s.
Yeah, it would increase queue times by, I doubt more than a minute absolutely maximum, perhaps on the worst days and times or something. But your vehicle will at least actually feel competitive, and not like you’re trying to fight a T-34-85 in a Panzer II.
The Soviet fleet lineup has 29 non-premium vehicles by my count, and 15 distinct BR levels.
You know naval is played, right? Maybe not, since you seem to think the tank cannons are actually good. It's technically true that they can kill boats multiple kilometers away in just a few shots. If you manage to (A) hit and (B) hit all the different sections you need to knock out. With relatively slow-firing cannons on a highly unstable firing platform. Mostly, you can miss boats at all kinds of ranges, and then if you're clued-in give up on that and shoot them with your AA battery.
It's somewhat useful for plunking at large and/or very slow targets. Against torpedo boats, the 76mm tank gun is really sub-par weaponry at its rank.
I thought the same thing when it came to BR decompression for tanks. Specifically: Japan, Britain, France, etc. They have less vehicles than the ‘big three’ nations. So spreading out the BRs a little more would spread out their tanks too, leaving larger gaps?
Yes. It would spread out the vehicles more, and leave larger gaps. I thought this was another problem at first with BR decompression, however, consider this:
Vehicle strength does not change at all.
This is interchangeable with tanks, aircraft, or whatever, but consider the following lineup:
Ship X: 2.3
Ship Y: 2.3
Ship Z: 2.3
Ship A: 2.0
Ship B: 1.3
Ship C: 1.0
Now, these are made up BRs, idk how much ships should be decompressed or whatever, but let’s say this is the new BRs:
Ship X: 3.0
Ship Y: 3.0
Ship Z: 2.7
Ship A: 2.3
Ship B: 1.7
Ship C: 1.0
Now,
1. “Now my lineup is worse, because I only have 2 vehicles of that strength instead of three”
• Well, no. Because BR decompression only targets the BRs, it does not change strength. Your lineup is identical to before, and is not any weaker. In fact, it is minutely stronger, because you won’t be uptiered to fight, say, destroyers in a PT boat only armed with a 76.2mm or so, for example.
To give an example of why say, Ship X, Y, and Z would be the same currently, and different later —
Take the new Russian project boat (i have it, so I probably should know the name) from the recent event awhile back. It is 2.3.
Now, consider: there is a very similar boat in the tech tree, with the same almost-everything — however, it has only 1 45mm instead of two like the premium.
In he current BR system, there is not enough to justify separating the ships BR wise, as there is just so much of a difference between vehicles of a 0.3 difference. But here, since BR decompression creates “in between” BRs, we can actually seperate these ships. So although ship Z may be weaker than X and Y, and is 0.3 lower here, but in the current system there is no room for this, and ship Z is the same BR as X and Y.
So your lineup is just the same, all that changes is “it looks different.” Your lineup is uneffected, differences between your vehicles are because they were different to begin with, there was just not enough BR to justify a difference.
To give another example if we were to use tanks, to give another example: take the Leopard A1A1 and the 120mm variant. I think we can all agree that the one with the Rheinmetall L/44 12cm smoothbore is better. But both are 8.7 currently: L/44 is inferior to 9.0 tanks like the MBT-70, meanwhile the regular A1A1 is way too strong for 8.3.
But in a Decompression scenario, there could be a difference allowing for them to split. The tanks did not change, I didn’t give the L/44 DM53 or whatever, I did not nerf the 105mm version, all is here is now allowing for a difference for vehicles that have differences strength wise, but cannot be separated due to the simple fact of “there is just not room” to.
2. “There is a bigger stretch between ships, meaning my backups are worse?”
No. Again same situation: strength did not change.
To give tanks as an example again, since they’re the easiest to illustrate, let’s say there is a difference between the Type 90 and Type 74 of 1.3, so your backup is 1.3 BR apart.
Now let’s say BR decompression happens, and it is a 2.3 difference between the base Type 74 and the Type 90. “Now my backups are worse!” Except they are not. Because, when you take out the Type 74 as a backup — your fighting the exact same enemies. Nothing changed, the difference is wider, but as I said, the vehicles did not change at all strength wise. It would not be any different, you face the same opponents, it’s the same Type 74 you take out after loosing your Type 90. All it does is it gives the illusion it is worse, nothing in reality changed.
So essentially,
This is a complete guess but let’s say there are now 20 BR levels now.
Now that means you’re going to have, assumably, some less vehicles at the same BR as others. But these vehicles don’t change strengths.
Going back to the Russian boat example, I believe the premium event was called Project 122bis? This boat is similar to a tech tree boat of a different name, which has only one change, 1 less 45mm cannon, 1 of 2 (which the 45mm cannons are a huge aspect of this ship’s firepower). This ship is also 2.3 like the bis.
Well now, let’s say in the new system, the 122bis is 3.0 and the other ship is 2.7. Because of this, there is now room to differentiate the BRs of these two ships, since one is better than the other. That is a good thing. Meanwhile, you may look at your 3.0 Russian lineup and go “there is now 4 3.0 ships, there used to be 7 back at 2.3” (example numbers). Well, some of those ships are 2.7, like the ship mentioned — it did not change strength. Meaning you still have 7 ships of the current 2.3 strength, it just changed a little, because now the weaker 2.3s now have a lower BR than the stronger 2.3s, giving strength differences as there should be.
Basically, it’s a “false con”, it looks bad but it actually has no negative effect, in fact it is better because you’re now representing differences between vehicles that were simply too compressed to do anything about now.
Yeah, I didn’t mean literally. But considering less people play it than Tanks and Aircraft, he queue times are slightly longer than both, and I heard multiple similar stories of trying naval and finding out it is rather disappointing, I am just staying it is not as good as it could be.
It was an example, however it doesn’t change that you in return, when fighting against a boat with just 2 12.7mms and maybe 2 torpedos that they have to get in close with or catch you unaware, those 12.7mms can’t really kill ships over 1,500m at all, and their effective range is really only about 700-1000m — and they need 2-3 hundred shots instead of 2-3.
This is also not including autocannons, the other big ‘f*** you’ gun lower ships deal with for example. They do considerable damage per shot, and are rapid fire with a multi-kilometer range too.
My point is, you feel borderline helpless if, for example, you’re in a D3 1.3 ship with 2 12.7mm guns fighting a 2.3 Project 122bis with a 85mm gun and two 45mm cannons that can
1. 85mm destroyed you at long range before you get into range
2. 45mms also have a longer range and can destroy you before you get into range, with a rapid reload
3. If you get to closer ranges, you can actually do some damage, but those 45mms can do some damage.
This isn’t right. Screw “make room for future ships”, I don’t want your future ships if they’re anything like this.
You have to either re-invent how combined-arms ranking works, or recognize that the numbers you stick on naval vessels get directly compared to the ones used for planes. They're not only used for apples-to-apples comparisons.
If you decompress all the BRs, of course, you can quash that problem. But just decompressing the naval vessels makes differences you probably don't intend.
Literally all your examples are painfully bad and often objectively wrong. (Right out the gate you presented a 5-boat lineup for a mode that's limited to 3 boat spawns, and implied that having BR 2.3 puts you in matches with destroyers which have minimum BR 3.7. Frankly, I thought better of you.)
But the main point about the ranking not actually making the weaker boats in your lineup any worse holds up pretty well. I do think there's actually value in being able to add a new vehicle to your lineup without the disincentive of immediately pushing up your matchmaking, personally. But by and large you're right.
2. I thought there was one destroyer that was 3.3, one of the older WW1 style ones. But a lot exist at 3.7 too, which means if this was an arguement for 2.7, which 2.7 isn’t exactly full of tanks that can compete with destroyers with big guns and lots of secondaries, so it applies there as well.
Thank you.
Yes, but by how much?
Here, it is more of a “how much do you decompress the battle ratings?”
I don’t think Naval needs to go to 10.0 or anything like that, not yet at least. However, “going from 15 BRs to 20 BRs” is actually more accurate to what I was personally thinking.
Having 5.7 at 6.7 (15>18), 7.0 (15>19), or probably 7.3 (15>20) I think is fine for the current state of the game. Which would change with aircraft... but not by too much. Top tier currently faces superprops, it would be an upgrade to jets, but just early jets. Which shouldn’t be a problem, they’re faster, but often lack as good bombloads, acceleration, and some other attributes.
The strengths of aircraft would go up, as for example, a plane at the battle rating of the Kirov could now be at the battle rating of the Stroyny or something. The difference might be relatively minor, I think it can be counteracted by perhaps a simple AI AA buff or something.
I don’t play naval quite enough to give accurate judgements and stuff like that. I don’t play naval anymore much really in fact due to just me disliking most aspects of it currently, including Br compression.