F-4C Phantom II CONFIRMED

[Zailplane]

https://warthunder.com/en/news/6352-development-f-4c-phantom-ii-the-record-breaker-en'

[halolo39]

引用自 theGoddes：

引用自 Peregrine：

Good for those guys I guess, but I don't care for GRB much, I main Air RB, so for me this is terrible news.

the problem here is that by this point, Russia is very air-dominated while America is very much ground-force oriented as it's vietnam

we do probably need to add the F-8 Crusader

the F-8 has been a fan favorite for release speculation for quite some time, US and FRA used them so killing 2 birds with one stone then Mach 2 planes happened...

[Peregrine]

引用自 kamikazi21358：

引用自 Peregrine：

~

It should get AIM-9Es as an upgrade I heard.

However, people are saying it should annihilate the MiG-21, so sounds balance to me — people cannot even determain which one is going to be better.

引用自 theGoddes：

F-4C will be far better in ground RB
at least if they get guided bombs right

More bombs means less air to air capabilities too, so it has a bombload of a bomber, but it’s going to sacrifice the air to air missiles for it, and that many bombs will create a lot of drag.

If you look at the video for the upcoming patch, at 27:21 it shows the modifications for the F4C. AT THIS TIME, she only gets 4 AIM-9B, no other AAMs and appears to get the gunpod and Sidewinders stock.

https://youtu.be/Qa5kc8q5eQA

[kamikazi21358]

引用自 Peregrine：

Thank you, I was hoping this. It is more balanced this way, and I was hoping it would be balanced to AIM-9Bs and stuff, while the F4D gets the better equipment (in the future).

[Peregrine]

引用自 kamikazi21358：

引用自 Peregrine：

Thank you, I was hoping this. It is more balanced this way, and I was hoping it would be balanced to AIM-9Bs and stuff, while the F4D gets the better equipment (in the future).

F100 gets the E, so I really don't see why the F4 shouldn't. Also, the F4E I feel would be better for the game than the F4D. but if you're curious about the C to D, here you go.

From CS Finescale's page.


I asked Berny (aka Phormer Phantom Phixer) what the differences were between an F-4C and an F-4D. He gave me a very detailed response that I thought others could benefit from. So with his permission, here it is:

There were a lot of differences, internal and external. The F-4D had the APQ-109A RADAR set resulting in the front cockpit having a different shaped glare shield and a larger combining gun sight and mount. This was not a HUD as come call it, but was actually a combining reflective glass gun sight. Also on the front glare shield were different shaped RWR and ILS scopes. The FCP pedestal panel had added control boxes and switches.

Rear cockpit in the F-4D had a larger and higher instrument panel. On the right console was the addition of the bomb nav control panel. The F-4D used a bomb nav computer for better weapons delivery which the F-4C did not have. If you are building a "Smart D" capable of carrying smart bombs than the RCP will have a square RADAR scope, not the round one. "Smart D's" had the APQ-109V RADAR set, so the scope was square and could produce an image like a TV. There was a circuit breaker panel added, just beside the WSO's right leg, down low and forward on the right console.

The F-4D had a different ECM system and the signal processor housed in the Radome Chin Pod was much larger. That is why the F-4D had the hump on the Chin Pod and the F-4C didn't. The RHAW antenna on the vertical fin was more rounded on the F-4D, not pointed like the F-4C.

[kamikazi21358]

And that is exactly why we’re getting the F4C. Because it’ll actually be balanced.

[Peregrine]

引用自 kamikazi21358：

And that is exactly why we’re getting the F4C. Because it’ll actually be balanced.

Well, on second though, I agree that we should get the D/E too, since we know they're going to add more MiG 21's. Oh and China gets the MiG 21 as well, with 2 30mm, not sure about missiles.

I don't really see the C being able to hang with the T-2 and MiG 19 or 21, but who knows, she might surprise me. Those AIM-9B are really a bit concerning though.

[ulzgoroth]

引用自 Peregrine：

GOOD MISSILES?

The AIM 9B (Shown on the pictures so far) was the problem child missile, the E fixed those issues, but we don't see her with it (Yet)

Is it a problem child missile in-game, though? Some weapons have a lot less problems in gameplay than in the real world. I don't yet have any vehicles with sidewinders, so I have no applicable experience there.

[Peregrine]

引用自 ulzgoroth：

引用自 Peregrine：

GOOD MISSILES?

The AIM 9B (Shown on the pictures so far) was the problem child missile, the E fixed those issues, but we don't see her with it (Yet)

Is it a problem child missile in-game, though? Some weapons have a lot less problems in gameplay than in the real world. I don't yet have any vehicles with sidewinders, so I have no applicable experience there.

The AIM-9E is worse for me, though some of my friends say they've had better experience with the E than I have.

For me, the E tends to lose lock post launch and just NOPE off wherever it wants 9/10, even with optimal firing profiles and nothing that should "Distract" the missile. The B is easy to outmanuver, but at least it goes after the intended target and sometimes hits it. I don't tend to see them start a spiral off into nowhere and then self destruct right after launch.

I'm not sure if the game nerfed the E or I just have bad luck with them.

[kamikazi21358]

引用自 Peregrine：

引用自 kamikazi21358：

And that is exactly why we’re getting the F4C. Because it’ll actually be balanced.

Well, on second though, I agree that we should get the D/E too, since we know they're going to add more MiG 21's. Oh and China gets the MiG 21 as well, with 2 30mm, not sure about missiles.

I don't really see the C being able to hang with the T-2 and MiG 19 or 21, but who knows, she might surprise me. Those AIM-9B are really a bit concerning though.

It gets AIM-9Bs, but it is faster than both and the gunpods are the strongest, and has 4 missiles (currently, doesn’t it get 8 eventually, or is that just the D?), while the MiG-21F-13 gets even worse missiles, only 2 of them, and a 60 round cannon (but is good at high altitude, and is a smaller plane), while the T-2 has 2 missiles, but better, with internal gun, but isn’t even Mach 2 and will be inferior to both.

Then, instead of spamming more better jets, I hope then they actually add counters to the other nations, and as well adds more rank 6 aircraft in the current strength, as there are still many many many options. Plus BR decompression and maps that can actually hold these Mach 2 jets would be nice.

[Peregrine]

引用自 kamikazi21358：

引用自 Peregrine：

Well, on second though, I agree that we should get the D/E too, since we know they're going to add more MiG 21's. Oh and China gets the MiG 21 as well, with 2 30mm, not sure about missiles.

I don't really see the C being able to hang with the T-2 and MiG 19 or 21, but who knows, she might surprise me. Those AIM-9B are really a bit concerning though.

It gets AIM-9Bs, but it is faster than both and the gunpods are the strongest, and has 4 missiles (currently, doesn’t it get 8 eventually, or is that just the D?), while the MiG-21F-13 gets even worse missiles, only 2 of them, and a 60 round cannon (but is good at high altitude, and is a smaller plane), while the T-2 has 2 missiles, but better, with internal gun, but isn’t even Mach 2 and will be inferior to both.

Then, instead of spamming more better jets, I hope then they actually add counters to the other nations, and as well adds more rank 6 aircraft in the current strength, as there are still many many many options. Plus BR decompression and maps that can actually hold these Mach 2 jets would be nice.

They already said they don't want more BR Decompression because it would increase Q times by a lot, so it's unlikely to happen.

F4C and D could carry 8 AAM's, but we only get 4 apparently, for now.

MiG 21 isn't going to be bad, she'll be a threat for T-2.

The new aircraft can go Mach 2 but ONLY at VERY High alt, and with little load, no issue for MiG, but big problem for F4, because you can bet, regardless of actual aircraft performance, she won't have any guts up there even if she only has the AIM-9's and the cannon pod.

At low alt, which is where most of the fighting happens (Even with T2, F100 and MiG 19) The speed gap is significantly less and all three will face the aforementioned aircraft on much more equal terms. NOBODY is going to fly up to 30000 feet just so they can zoom around at Mach 2 and try to fight up there unless they're trying to run out the match timer or see how fast they run out of fuel.

It's all going to be 0 to 15000 or so just as it is now, if for no other reason than lack of targets, and the F4's options are going to be Boom and Zoom, High Speed Pass or, try to turn with literally anything and die instantly.

[kamikazi21358]

引用自 Peregrine：

They already said they don't want more BR Decompression because it would increase Q times by a lot, so it's unlikely to happen.

*by a little. A small price to pay for 1,100km/h jets to not-fight 2,300km/h jets with missiles and radar.

引用自 Peregrine：

MiG 21 isn't going to be bad, she'll be a threat for T-2.

I never said it would be bad, it should be equal to the F4C and T2.

引用自 Peregrine：

The new aircraft can go Mach 2 but ONLY at VERY High alt, and with little load, no issue for MiG, but big problem for F4, because you can bet, regardless of actual aircraft performance, she won't have any guts up there even if she only has the AIM-9's and the cannon pod.

Which I mentioned in the past, (maybe it was a different thread), that this would be an advantage of the MiG-21. The F4 has better armament and better top speed, ‘but the MiG-21 will have good altitude performance’ was one of the listed advantages, along with it being a lighter, smaller target.

Also, they might not go Mach 2 at sea level, but the F4C still goes over 1,350 km/h at sea level.

引用自 Peregrine：

At low alt, which is where most of the fighting happens (Even with T2, F100 and MiG 19) The speed gap is significantly less and all three will face the aforementioned aircraft on much more equal terms. NOBODY is going to fly up to 30000 feet just so they can zoom around at Mach 2 and try to fight up there unless they're trying to run out the match timer or see how fast they run out of fuel.

With current maps, probably. Though hopefully we’ll get more Englishs channel map sized maps for example, for these jets. But the speed gap is still high — the best 9.0s having 200km/h difference at sea level, and of course,
you never considered among the most valuable statistics of jets.

The F4C has double the dry thrust of some of the best 9.0s.

引用自 Peregrine：

~

From what I see it as:

MiG-21F-13 = T-2 = F4C,
but br compression allows
MiG-21F-13 > MiG-19 at the same BR

And now 9.0s are going to fight jets that have 100%-150% more engine power than they have.

[Peregrine]

I DID consider the 9.0 and 9.3 jets, and if the F4 tries to tangle with them doing ANY maneuvering they're going to murder her.

I agree that certain jets shouldn't fight at top T, but it's what Gaijin has said, so I don't see them changing that.

[kamikazi21358]

引用自 Peregrine：

I DID consider the 9.0 and 9.3 jets, and if the F4 tries to tangle with them doing ANY maneuvering they're going to murder her.

Basically what it’s like to fight I-153s in a Messerschmitt Bf 109K-4.

引用自 Peregrine：

I agree that certain jets shouldn't fight at top T, but it's what Gaijin has said, so I don't see them changing that.

Still not going to be silent about it.

[Peregrine]

引用自 kamikazi21358：

引用自 Peregrine：

I DID consider the 9.0 and 9.3 jets, and if the F4 tries to tangle with them doing ANY maneuvering they're going to murder her.

Basically what it’s like to fight I-153s in a Messerschmitt Bf 109K-4.

引用自 Peregrine：

I agree that certain jets shouldn't fight at top T, but it's what Gaijin has said, so I don't see them changing that.

Still not going to be silent about it.

Point 1, I expect F4's to die a lot to "Obsolete" planes.

Point 2, fair.

[ulzgoroth]

Poking around the history for unrelated reasons, I find myself wishing for more filling-in of high level jets over pushing the cap up...

Though I guess the Phantom isn't really pushing the performance cap since the T2 was already there? Still, I'd like to see more of the currently unrepresented 50s planes...

引用自 Peregrine：

Point 1, I expect F4's to die a lot to "Obsolete" planes.

Well, that's historical considering a number of them were lost to MiG-17s over Vietnam.