Fix helicopters

[Inept Komodo]

They need to have spawn point costs raised, I'm tired of getting spawn killed 45 seconds into the game by an EC whatever tiger heli.

But they won't do that because then they won't make as much money.

[Katokevin]

Originally posted by Kozarsson:

Originally posted by Katokevin:

Depends on the BR. Something like an AH-1F downtiered to 8.7 where there can easily be no SPAA with SAM's can be VERY deadly. There are still SPAA with radar in there, but they may only have guns effective to around 2.5-3km max where the AH-1's missiles may be able to hit outside that range.

Grinding the Chinese tree with the T-62 has really reminded me of how deadly they actually can be in a downtier. They can become a real threat at that BR with a pilot that knows to stay just in missile range, but out of SPAA gun range. Top tier, they can easily be picked off by that top end SPAA, but down tiered, there may be far less to no threat of that.

The AH-1F’s TOW has a max range of 3km

The AH-1F is just a side example. You can take the German helicopters for a better example. All 9.7's have either a 4km range (HOT-2 on the BO-105 PAH's) or 5km range (Shturm on both MI-24's), and similar for the British and French. Point being that many can sit out of SPAA gun range when downtiered.

[jaxjace]

Originally posted by Katokevin:

Originally posted by Kozarsson:

The AH-1F’s TOW has a max range of 3km

The AH-1F is just a side example. You can take the German helicopters for a better example. All 9.7's have either a 4km range (HOT-2 on the BO-105 PAH's) or 5km range (Shturm on both MI-24's), and similar for the British and French. Point being that many can sit out of SPAA gun range when downtiered.

Those helicopters have NEVER been in a downtier. ive played hundreds of matches in my alloutte huey and bo and have never once gotten a down tier. Its 10.0 all day every day. I have never once been able to sit at 4km and shoot tanks with atgms, besides radar AA there are tank based atgms that have no problem hitting a helicopter and again, people are learning how to hit helos with tank rounds. You really ought to try grinding the german helo line man, it has been the most painful grind of my entire time in warthunder.

Only the Bo has a 4km+ range and its a civilian helicopter with no IR defenses, no exhaust baffling and no air to air missiles, and if it wants to carry a gun it has to only carry 3 atgms to compensate, ALSO it cant even carry flares at the same time as it carries its full load of atgms( which is only 6) (8 with the premium but they are weaker and shorter range)

The Bos do not deserve to be 9.7 its insane, they should all be 8.7 The Huey and alloutte need to go down to 8.0.

I just FINALLY got my german hind and its just a completely different vehicle compared to the civies, im grinding it out 10x faster than the civie helos ever could, its night and day and thats with it having inferior AA missles and weak atgms to boot.

[blazing-man255]

Originally posted by Lorekor:

Originally posted by Kozarsson:

If they increase the SP of helis to let’s say 576 then they gotta increase te SP cost of SAMS as well.
ADATS and Tungushkas to 450SP.
Roland, Stormer, Sidam 25 mistral, Raketen to 300SP.

I’m all for that suggestion above, SP of vehicles should be based on how effective the vehicle is, not what class the vehicle is.

also Sidam Mistral is the best SPAA in game rn.

sidam is only good at shooting aircraft down not helicopters, the missiles do not detect a heat source on said helicopters even tho they would be a much easier target irl to lock onto rather than the front of a aircraft yet I am locking the front of aircraft at 6km ranges and cant lock onto a heli from ranges of 2km or less the only time I take a mistral now is to try to kill ground targets with the apds or if they are spamming planes. (the only time i kill heli's in the sidam are ones they fly less than 2km from me and i can nail them with the guns i rarely shoot missiles at them over the guns as they just refuse to lock the majority of the time)

Originally posted by Kozarsson:

Originally posted by Maus!:

you think those anti tank missles are bad from the eurocopter? try going into enduring confrontation helicopter and getting mistrel'd from ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nowhere at extreme range. To add insult to injury, the triple protection system on the Hind (exhaust shielding, IRCM, flares) doesn't do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ against them.

Ýeah noticed that as well, flares are not that effective against mistrals compared to other missiles, I believe it's a bug, because on any other missile if you use flares you basically removed any danger, with the mistrals its more like a 10% chance.

if they removed the thermal lock warning and replaced it with a proper visible trail from the rocket for the heli's to see and drop flares it would make more sense especially if said flares worked the way they would irl (flare drop+ high g turn to increase odd's of fooling the missile)

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by Kozarsson:

Originally posted by Maus!:

you think those anti tank missles are bad from the eurocopter? try going into enduring confrontation helicopter and getting mistrel'd from ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nowhere at extreme range. To add insult to injury, the triple protection system on the Hind (exhaust shielding, IRCM, flares) doesn't do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ against them.

Ýeah noticed that as well, flares are not that effective against mistrals compared to other missiles, I believe it's a bug, because on any other missile if you use flares you basically removed any danger, with the mistrals its more like a 10% chance.

There's a changelog line that goes:
"AIM-92 Stinger, Mistral and 9M39 Igla air-to-air missiles will no longer react to IRCM."

[blazing-man255]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by Kozarsson:

Ýeah noticed that as well, flares are not that effective against mistrals compared to other missiles, I believe it's a bug, because on any other missile if you use flares you basically removed any danger, with the mistrals its more like a 10% chance.

There's a changelog line that goes:
"AIM-92 Stinger, Mistral and 9M39 Igla air-to-air missiles will no longer react to IRCM."

they should react to it to give said vehicles a chance to dodge them major emphasis on CHANCE not guaranteed to dodge but a chance, also should be influenced by movements from said heli's

[Blamite Delight]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by Kozarsson:

Ýeah noticed that as well, flares are not that effective against mistrals compared to other missiles, I believe it's a bug, because on any other missile if you use flares you basically removed any danger, with the mistrals its more like a 10% chance.

There's a changelog line that goes:
"AIM-92 Stinger, Mistral and 9M39 Igla air-to-air missiles will no longer react to IRCM."

you have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!

[Kozi]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by Kozarsson:

Ýeah noticed that as well, flares are not that effective against mistrals compared to other missiles, I believe it's a bug, because on any other missile if you use flares you basically removed any danger, with the mistrals its more like a 10% chance.

There's a changelog line that goes:
"AIM-92 Stinger, Mistral and 9M39 Igla air-to-air missiles will no longer react to IRCM."

Still odd, I can easily fool the Stingers and Iglas but the mistrals rarely...