MiG 15 vs Sabre´s

[Krapfen]

How do i counter them? they always rape our teams, they are too fast, have perfect roll rate and can even turn better, no clue what to do against them

[Drewskii]

Which one is “them?”

[Krapfen]

Originally posted by Weeaboo:

Which one is “them?”

basically all Sabres

[Wardog]

Originally posted by ☆ ILuxx ツ © ☆:

Originally posted by Weeaboo:

Which one is “them?”

basically all Sabres

A-5s bleed energy all the time and I don't see how you with a mig-15bis acceleration have trouble with them.
F sereies are better but you deal with them the same way, get them in a low engery state and watch as that low rate falters.

[Krapfen]

Originally posted by Wardog:

Originally posted by ☆ ILuxx ツ © ☆:

basically all Sabres

A-5s bleed energy all the time and I don't see how you with a mig-15bis acceleration have trouble with them.
F sereies are better but you deal with them the same way, get them in a low engery state and watch as that low rate falters.

did i ever mentions bis? i dont think so, always the same guys, when i start a discussion trying to derail it... WHY?!

[Tankslayer]

Sabres in general just outclass the MiG-15. Try to get them to overshoot you or bleed off all of their speed, and then shoot em down.

[Krapfen]

Originally posted by Tankslayer_TFX:

Sabres in general just outclass the MiG-15. Try to get them to overshoot you or bleed off all of their speed, and then shoot em down.

how do i make them overshoot? any other ways than just pressing SDE or SAQ at the same time? and how to bleed their speed?

[Tankslayer]

Originally posted by ☆ ILuxx ツ © ☆:

Originally posted by Tankslayer_TFX:

Sabres in general just outclass the MiG-15. Try to get them to overshoot you or bleed off all of their speed, and then shoot em down.

how do i make them overshoot? any other ways than just pressing SDE or SAQ at the same time? and how to bleed their speed?

Make them overshoot by slowing down or using airbrakes. To make them bleed speed get them in a turnfight, you'll most likely win.

[Illusionyary]

Unless you have the initial advantage you're kinda stuffed, although you can make Sabres "overoll" and miss their shots, because they roll so well. The MiG-15(bis) will outclimb Sabres, and can turn with them. I found my bis to turn pretty well, and much more than I expected.

[Krapfen]

Originally posted by Tankslayer_TFX:

Originally posted by ☆ ILuxx ツ © ☆:

how do i make them overshoot? any other ways than just pressing SDE or SAQ at the same time? and how to bleed their speed?

Make them overshoot by slowing down or using airbrakes. To make them bleed speed get them in a turnfight, you'll most likely win.

thats what i did when they tried to slow down to make ME overshoot, but luckily i wasnt that stupid and actually killed two sabres this way, but most of the time they either just run away or do a headon, in which i dont stand a chance, at least stock

[Krapfen]

Originally posted by Illusionyary:

Unless you have the initial advantage you're kinda stuffed, although you can make Sabres "overoll" and miss their shots, because they roll so well. The MiG-15(bis) will outclimb Sabres, and can turn with them. I found my bis to turn pretty well, and much more than I expected.

i think i know what you mean by overroll, i might try that

[Spaddobird]

The Sabre and the MiG-15 are two of the most perfectly balanced adversaries in this game. This has been the case since they were the only two top tier jets and if I'm honest, top tier jets was more fun back when it was only populated by these two planes. Now that we have the Hunter, Venom and many other different jets involved it's just so hard to fight effectively because you need to completely change up your fighting style depending on what planes you're fighting. MiGs vs a team of Sabres, Hunters and Venoms shouldn't be fair, but stupid allied pilots seem to do the heavy lifting to make top tier balanced...

Anyway.

Combat between the Sabre and MiG is complicated, each plane can outperform the other in most aspects if the situation is right... there are really only two general truths. 1 - The MiG-15 always accelerates faster than the Sabre (except in a dive). 2 - The MiG-15 will never outrun the Sabre in a straight line (although you can climb away to gain separation).

Here are some tips to get you started:

1) Upgrade your MiG. Power mods and boosters first, then 37mm offensive belt (need all HE not 50/50 split) these are essential because the MiG relies on its acceleration and climb rate to outperform the Sabre.

2) Learn to aim. The MiG cannons do take more skill to use than the Sabre guns because of their average muzzle velocity and dodgy hit detection. They work best when your target has a large profile (try not to hang around directly behind your enemy).

3) Abuse the MiG's absurd acceleration to the max. It is my favourite top tier jet for this reason, if you can bleed a Sabre of his energy then he simply cannot escape by himself anymore. Turn away from their passes and force them to engage you in a turn battle when it is safe to do so. The Sabre cannot run from the MiG in a low speed situation, he has a higher top speed but in the time it takes him to reach it you should be able to shoot him down, and he won't be able to build that energy if you're pressuring him. Just be mindful of the other planes around you when you're turning with him and remember the Sabre A-5 has wing slats which can work in its favour in extremely low speed turn fights. Generally once you're both low speed, and you're left alone by his team mates there isn't much he can do to escape you.

4) The MiG can out climb the Sabre in a sustained climb. Take note - a sustained climb and a zoom climb are two very different things! I often see MiGs point their nose in the air and expect to escape a Sabre bearing down on them only to get cut down from behind. You can only escape the Sabre in a climb if you both start from roughly the same energy state.

Here's an example:
Say you are going 800km/h and he is going 900km/h, he is catching you. You point your nose up at 45 degrees to the horizon and your speed starts to drop dramatically - you are entering a zoom climb. You're not relying on your power to weight ratio in this situation (the MiG's strong point) - you're relying on momentum, an area where the heavier (and more aerodynamic) Sabre has the advantage. He will catch you simply because he has the heavier and slipperier plane, the Sabre retains its energy better than the MiG.

Lets say you enter a shallower climb though, speed is more important here so lets say you enter your climb at 25ish degrees and then level out a little once your plane reaches 650km/h (roughly optimal climbing speed for the MiG). The Sabre will try to follow you but he will find that eventually he cannot sustain his speed advantage whilst chasing you to altitude. This is a sustained climb and I have used this against Sabres many times to gain separation.

5) This isn't really a tip but more of a warning. You know how I said that the Sabre is more aerodynamic (slipperier) before? That is important at high altitude. You will start to notice significantly the difference in energy retention at high altitude between the MiG and the Sabre because while your MiG's engine power (and therefore ability to regain energy) is reduced dramatically, the sabre's slipperiness and mass are constants.

Contrary to what most people will tell you, you should avoid high altitude fights in your MiG against a Sabre. Granted if the Sabre is an idiot (and many of them are) you are probably safe but if he is smart he will actually bleed you of your energy and this is a trap I have actually fallen into when trying to out loop a Sabre at 8000m altitude. If you do fall into this trap then you need to be very careful because he will also out dive you. Try to avoid him until you can get to lower altitude and into a situation where you can abuse your engine power again.

I hope this helps, don't give up, the MiG 15 (bis especially) is a fantastic and fun plane, it just takes a little getting used to. Also the roll rate will always be trash, just get used to it haha

[The Pangaean Gamer]

Originally posted by Spaddobird:

~snip

Stop it, you're triggering my nostalgia.

[Krapfen]

Originally posted by Spaddobird:

The Sabre and the MiG-15 are two of the most perfectly balanced adversaries in this game. This has been the case since they were the only two top tier jets and if I'm honest, top tier jets was more fun back when it was only populated by these two planes. Now that we have the Hunter, Venom and many other different jets involved it's just so hard to fight effectively because you need to completely change up your fighting style depending on what planes you're fighting. MiGs vs a team of Sabres, Hunters and Venoms shouldn't be fair, but stupid allied pilots seem to do the heavy lifting to make top tier balanced...

Anyway.

Combat between the Sabre and MiG is complicated, each plane can outperform the other in most aspects if the situation is right... there are really only two general truths. 1 - The MiG-15 always accelerates faster than the Sabre (except in a dive). 2 - The MiG-15 will never outrun the Sabre in a straight line (although you can climb away to gain separation).

Here are some tips to get you started:

1) Upgrade your MiG. Power mods and boosters first, then 37mm offensive belt (need all HE not 50/50 split) these are essential because the MiG relies on its acceleration and climb rate to outperform the Sabre.

2) Learn to aim. The MiG cannons do take more skill to use than the Sabre guns because of their average muzzle velocity and dodgy hit detection. They work best when your target has a large profile (try not to hang around directly behind your enemy).

3) Abuse the MiG's absurd acceleration to the max. It is my favourite top tier jet for this reason, if you can bleed a Sabre of his energy then he simply cannot escape by himself anymore. Turn away from their passes and force them to engage you in a turn battle when it is safe to do so. The Sabre cannot run from the MiG in a low speed situation, he has a higher top speed but in the time it takes him to reach it you should be able to shoot him down, and he won't be able to build that energy if you're pressuring him. Just be mindful of the other planes around you when you're turning with him and remember the Sabre A-5 has wing slats which can work in its favour in extremely low speed turn fights. Generally once you're both low speed, and you're left alone by his team mates there isn't much he can do to escape you.

4) The MiG can out climb the Sabre in a sustained climb. Take note - a sustained climb and a zoom climb are two very different things! I often see MiGs point their nose in the air and expect to escape a Sabre bearing down on them only to get cut down from behind. You can only escape the Sabre in a climb if you both start from roughly the same energy state.

Here's an example:
Say you are going 800km/h and he is going 900km/h, he is catching you. You point your nose up at 45 degrees to the horizon and your speed starts to drop dramatically - you are entering a zoom climb. You're not relying on your power to weight ratio in this situation (the MiG's strong point) - you're relying on momentum, an area where the heavier (and more aerodynamic) Sabre has the advantage. He will catch you simply because he has the heavier and slipperier plane, the Sabre retains its energy better than the MiG.

Lets say you enter a shallower climb though, speed is more important here so lets say you enter your climb at 25ish degrees and then level out a little once your plane reaches 650km/h (roughly optimal climbing speed for the MiG). The Sabre will try to follow you but he will find that eventually he cannot sustain his speed advantage whilst chasing you to altitude. This is a sustained climb and I have used this against Sabres many times to gain separation.

5) This isn't really a tip but more of a warning. You know how I said that the Sabre is more aerodynamic (slipperier) before? That is important at high altitude. You will start to notice significantly the difference in energy retention at high altitude between the MiG and the Sabre because while your MiG's engine power (and therefore ability to regain energy) is reduced dramatically, the sabre's slipperiness and mass are constants.

Contrary to what most people will tell you, you should avoid high altitude fights in your MiG against a Sabre. Granted if the Sabre is an idiot (and many of them are) you are probably safe but if he is smart he will actually bleed you of your energy and this is a trap I have actually fallen into when trying to out loop a Sabre at 8000m altitude. If you do fall into this trap then you need to be very careful because he will also out dive you. Try to avoid him until you can get to lower altitude and into a situation where you can abuse your engine power again.

I hope this helps, don't give up, the MiG 15 (bis especially) is a fantastic and fun plane, it just takes a little getting used to. Also the roll rate will always be trash, just get used to it haha

I dont really get your introduction, but yeah I´ll try the stuff you said, thank you very much :P

[Krapfen]

Im starting to hate the MIG 15... roll rate is ♥♥♥♥, makes it impossible to turnfight someone, and speed is slow as ♥♥♥♥, cant outrun anything, and when i fly slower everything outturn me, worst jet ever, even the expensive 262 is better than this ♥♥♥♥... wasted my money on this stupid piece of garbage

[Spaddobird]

Originally posted by ☆ ILuxx ツ © ☆:

Im starting to hate the MIG 15... roll rate is ♥♥♥♥, makes it impossible to turnfight someone, and speed is slow as ♥♥♥♥, cant outrun anything, and when i fly slower everything outturn me, worst jet ever, even the expensive 262 is better than this ♥♥♥♥... wasted my money on this stupid piece of garbage

Did you try the "upgrade your plane" part? The roll rate is sufficient at medium/low speed where turn fights occur and it is not slow, it just isn't as fast as the Sabre in top speed. You'll struggle a lot with a stock plane, and I mean a lot. But it does improve.