spitfires destroying arcade mode

[ultraviolence]

First of all, I'm not saying the entire game is ruined because of these planes, but this is something I just have to get out of the way. Whenever I get dropped into a lobby, take a look at the scoreboard, and see half the enemy team using these, it just looks like a cheap and sleazy way to win. Right off the bat they have an advantage over you because they turn extremely tight and hunt in packs so if you attack one of them the second guy will just turn behind you and kill you.

"Just drop down on them and speed away then"

That doesn't work either, because he can just as easily ruin your attack approach if you sees you coming by doing a hard turn and then reversing it and shooting at you. When he does this you'll probably get killed since you can't outrun his bullets so trying to outrun spitfires doesn't work either. I just find it annoying how so many people now use these planes as a crutch simply because they have no skill and don't want to try. To be fair, you don't have to use them, you can just as easily go to another nation, but just to think they even considered giving people the option is still disgusting, because you know everyone who doesn't like to try to do well will just use spitfires instead. This everyone's a winner stuff is a bunch of nonsense. If you're not good, you should lose.

[Hastur]

So, its a mixed bag. The Spitfires are not so much OP, as some of its competitors are under modelled.

Take the turn times. The Mk 1 is listed as ~15 seconds. That is, approximately 15 seconds. That number is actually fairly accurate, it reflects the SUSTAINED turn time of the Spitfire Mk 1 at 1,000 ft. Actual record is 14,8 seconds, so the ~15 is pretty much spot on. At 5,000 ft the turn time was 16 seconds, at 10,000 ft its 17.8 seconds, and at 15,000 ft its 20.8 seconds.

This is also borne out by the Spitfire Mk2a, which shows a sustained turn time of 15.1 seconds.

So, for the Spitfire Mk 1, the 15 second sustained turn is accurate. This turn time reflects the BEST cornering speed in a sustained flat turn.

Here is where things get a bit wonky. The Spit wasnt the best turning modern fighter that Brits had, that honor actually went to the Hurricane.

And here is where things get weird. Several folks probably just went "Huh? The Hurricane's turn time is terrible! Its 23.5 seconds!"

Except it wasnt. The Hurricane Mk 1 SUSTAINED turn time was;
1000 ft- 14.8 seconds
5000 ft- 16.4 seconds
10,000 ft- 18.5 seconds
15,000 ft- 22 seconds

So, in this case, it seems that we are looking at the Spits best time, and the Hurricanes worst, at least to get the numbers showing up in the Wiki in game. I cant explain the discrepancy.

Similarly, the Zero (A6M2 M21) shows in game as 20.15 seconds. The sustained turn times for the plane were;
1000 ft- 13.2 seconds
5000 ft- 14.2 seconds
10,000 ft- 16.7 seconds
15,000 ft- 18.5 seconds

How about the Germans? Well, the 109 E4 is a beast, surely its close? Nope. In game, 23.98 seconds. Acutals;
1000 ft- 18 seconds
5000 ft- 19.3 seconds
10,000 ft- 21.1 seconds
15,000 ft- 24.1 seconds

Now, once again, these numbers are the BEST SUSTAINED speeds. These numbers can and do change, often radically, as you look at high speed single turns ect. In most cases a single 360 degree turn at best corner speed will show the numbers MUCH lower than the sustained.

The Spit Mk 1 could do a single 360 at best speed at 1,000 ft in 12.2 seconds, which was pretty impressive. But the A6m2 could do the same turn at 9.8 seconds.

So, it appears that the Spitfires got the best possible number for turn time. Now, that may be masked by other factors Gajin used, or rounding based on a lot of other numbers, I really dont know. But, like I said, the only way the numbers matched up was to used the sustained turn numbers, which matched the Spit, and sort of matched the other planes, just not at the same altitude.

Now, climb rate is a whole other beast. Here is where some numbers surprised me.
Rate of climb for Spitfires;
War Thunder Historical
MK IIa 19.4 m/s 15.3 m/s
Mk Vb 17.8 m/s 16.5 m/s
LF Mk IX 26.8 m/s 24.1 m/s
MK 24 23.7 m/s 21 m/s

Now for some comparable fighters;
War Thunder Historical
A6M2 13.3 m/s 15.7 (or 16.15)
Ki-43 15.3 m/s 16.7 m/s
109E3/4 17.83 m/s 16.69 m/s
109F4 20 m/s 18.7 ms/s
109G2 23.15 m/s 21 m/s
Yak 1 16 m/s 15 m/s

There is quite of lot (TONS) of conflicting information on aircraft performance. There are some very good sources out there for performance numbers and they get better and more reliable (in most cases) as time goes by and more information is released. Numbers <1 m/s is arguable, and can depend on source material and numerical conversion and rounding. Numbers > 1.5 m/s, starts getting iffy. 1.5 m/s difference is a 90m difference per minute.

So, arguably, the Spits and the 109s are a bit overly generous in climbing. The Spits are turning to their best historical numbers, and the 109s are not, and the Japanese planes are under performing across the board.

[.]

Thanks for that... ^^

[Rei]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Inspector Gadget minecrap:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Rootin Tootin Putin:

Most spitfire players in AB don't even notice me, so I can just dive on them, and kill them with ease. Although they're a bit of a pain in the ass if they're flown by a decent player.

You don't have to be good to do good with it. That's the problem.

You don't have to be good with a lot of planes, some of them with less repair costs even. What plane are you using? If you're flying USA never ever try to turn fight, but you seem smart enough with the game to know that so idk.

[rodbarker007]

Learn to fly and you will find out no plane is OP and all planes can be good and bad depending on the situation, ever heard the saying a good tradesmen never blames his tools.

[Blamite Delight]

Początkowo opublikowane przez rodbarker007:

Learn to fly and you will find out no plane is OP and all planes can be good and bad depending on the situation, ever heard the saying a good tradesmen never blames his tools.

a good set of tools never fail the tradesmen :P

[Nevu]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ^3Maus!:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Inspector Gadget minecrap:

Every lobby I get into half the team is using it. The early ones that have no cannons are managable but once you get late into tier 3 it's just ridiculous. I might do rb because spitfires are making it impossible to play arcade and have fun.

ahhh! the spitfire F mk 9! damn can she climb! but she can't outperform several of the late germans such as the Fw 190 with its 20mm cannons, not to mention the japanese planes can easily take care of her as well.

Wait till you see the LF Mk 9. Literal rocket

[.]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ^3Maus!:

Początkowo opublikowane przez rodbarker007:

Learn to fly and you will find out no plane is OP and all planes can be good and bad depending on the situation, ever heard the saying a good tradesmen never blames his tools.

a good set of tools never fail the tradesmen :P

And you can't polish a turd :D

A spit will out fly an FW any day of the week. Just don't head on with one and turn into a boom and zoom FW.

[GoreTiger]

Spitfires have always been a Balancing issue in almost every air game. I played AcesHigh for years as well and they were pretty OP there too.

Try to suprise it, Don't get suckered into a turn fight, If you're high up, outdive it, And if you think you can survive it: HO him.

[.]

^^

Brits are also well known for being the least 'tanky' planes.

[.]

Random stats from top 5 squadrons and their top 5 planes:

Pilot1 @ 96.84 effeciency AB:
2 A-20G-25 2862 85.81% n/a n/a
3 P-47D-25 2520 96.11% n/a n/a
2 Boston Mk.I 2025 89.09% n/a n/a
1 Havoc Mk I 1895 88.97% n/a n/a
2 B-25J-1 1880 92.07% n/a n/a

Pilot2 @ 82.78 AB:

4 Fw 190 D-13 5218 +39 85.49% -0.17% n/a n/a
4 Bf 109 K-4 4401 +47 84.44% -0.18% n/a n/a
4 Do 217 M-1 3948 +50 84.17% -0.05% n/a n/a
4 Do 217 K-1 3672 +34 88.86% -0.07% n/a n/a
4 Fw 190 D-9 2206 79.06% n/a n/a

Pilot3 @ 89.65 AB:

3 Typhoon Mk Ib 1843 +9 95.5% +0.03% n/a n/a
2 Wellington Mk Ic 996 89.46% n/a n/a
2 Wellington Mk Ic/L 880 +3 91.48% +0.03% n/a n/a
2 Wellington Mk III 866 +5 92.84% -0.19% n/a n/a
2 LaGG-3-35 748 88.1% n/a n/a

Pilot4 @ 89.65 AB:

3 P-47D-28 5399 +47 92.2% -0.01% n/a n/a
3 P-51 4568 +39 94.31% -0.02% n/a n/a
3 P-47D-25 4288 +26 90.37% +0.01% n/a n/a
1 I-301 2521 +3 92.23% +0.01% n/a n/a
2 LaGG-3-35 2501 78.97% n/a n/a

Pilot5 @ 80.66 AB:

1 Yak-1 2531 +2 88.15% +0.01% n/a n/a
2 Yak-1B 1316 82.14% n/a n/a
1 LaGG-3-11 1246 +1 86.68% +0.01% n/a n/a
1 I-16 type 18 1131 65.78% n/a n/a
4 Bf 109 G-6 1056 58.05% n/a n/a

Pilot6 @ 96.36 AB:

1 Su-2 M-82 7181 +34 94.62% -0.07% n/a n/a
1 I-301 6639 +43 95.16% -0.03% n/a n/a
1 Yak-1 3237 +24 91.66% -0.04% n/a n/a
1 LaGG-3-23 2965 +9 92.88% -0.06% n/a n/a
2 MiG-3-15 (BK) 2954 +5 92.79% -0.02% n/a n/a

Hope this helps dispel the myth... happy flying.

Edit: In fear of a 'cooking the books accusation' (thunderskill dot com - player vehicle stats)

[Blamite Delight]

Początkowo opublikowane przez macneil22:

Początkowo opublikowane przez ^3Maus!:

a good set of tools never fail the tradesmen :P

And you can't polish a turd :D

A spit will out fly an FW any day of the week. Just don't head on with one and turn into a boom and zoom FW.

why are you telling me this? I have no problems against british aircraft.

[Blamite Delight]

Początkowo opublikowane przez macneil22:

Random stats from top 5 squadrons and their top 5 planes:

Pilot1 @ 96.84 effeciency AB:
2 A-20G-25 2862 85.81% n/a n/a
3 P-47D-25 2520 96.11% n/a n/a
2 Boston Mk.I 2025 89.09% n/a n/a
1 Havoc Mk I 1895 88.97% n/a n/a
2 B-25J-1 1880 92.07% n/a n/a

Pilot2 @ 82.78 AB:

4 Fw 190 D-13 5218 +39 85.49% -0.17% n/a n/a
4 Bf 109 K-4 4401 +47 84.44% -0.18% n/a n/a
4 Do 217 M-1 3948 +50 84.17% -0.05% n/a n/a
4 Do 217 K-1 3672 +34 88.86% -0.07% n/a n/a
4 Fw 190 D-9 2206 79.06% n/a n/a

Pilot3 @ 89.65 AB:

3 Typhoon Mk Ib 1843 +9 95.5% +0.03% n/a n/a
2 Wellington Mk Ic 996 89.46% n/a n/a
2 Wellington Mk Ic/L 880 +3 91.48% +0.03% n/a n/a
2 Wellington Mk III 866 +5 92.84% -0.19% n/a n/a
2 LaGG-3-35 748 88.1% n/a n/a

Pilot4 @ 89.65 AB:

3 P-47D-28 5399 +47 92.2% -0.01% n/a n/a
3 P-51 4568 +39 94.31% -0.02% n/a n/a
3 P-47D-25 4288 +26 90.37% +0.01% n/a n/a
1 I-301 2521 +3 92.23% +0.01% n/a n/a
2 LaGG-3-35 2501 78.97% n/a n/a

Pilot5 @ 80.66 AB:

1 Yak-1 2531 +2 88.15% +0.01% n/a n/a
2 Yak-1B 1316 82.14% n/a n/a
1 LaGG-3-11 1246 +1 86.68% +0.01% n/a n/a
1 I-16 type 18 1131 65.78% n/a n/a
4 Bf 109 G-6 1056 58.05% n/a n/a

Pilot6 @ 96.36 AB:

1 Su-2 M-82 7181 +34 94.62% -0.07% n/a n/a
1 I-301 6639 +43 95.16% -0.03% n/a n/a
1 Yak-1 3237 +24 91.66% -0.04% n/a n/a
1 LaGG-3-23 2965 +9 92.88% -0.06% n/a n/a
2 MiG-3-15 (BK) 2954 +5 92.79% -0.02% n/a n/a

Hope this helps dispel the myth... happy flying.

Edit: In fear of a 'cooking the books accusation' (thunderskill dot com - player vehicle stats)

you're using a very specific point of knowledge that you know about. Those stats don't hold up to what everyone else is using. Yeah those 6 ppl do well with THOSE planes but most people fly overpowered spitfires.

[.]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ^3Maus!:

you're using a very specific point of knowledge that you know about. Those stats don't hold up to what everyone else is using. Yeah those 6 ppl do well with THOSE planes but most people fly overpowered spitfires.

Nope, sorry, this knowledge is there for everyone with eyes to read. With the logic and premise of the OP, they hold up very strong as not one plane in that list is a spit and most top fighters are Russian and German.

Początkowo opublikowane przez ^3Maus!:

ahhh! the spitfire F mk 9! damn can she climb! but she can't outperform several of the late germans such as the Fw 190 with its 20mm cannons, not to mention the japanese planes can easily take care of her as well.

Sorry I thought you said the above. No probs.

[Hans Klok]

As far as I'm concerned I only seem to have issues with the Griffon Spits, especially in RB. Yet the majority of Spitfire users are complete idiots that follow you in hammerheads and scissors etc. (Bf109 and Fw 190 player myself).

[Maus]

If you are flying American planes and are having trouble with Spitfires, that means you are fighting them on their terms, not yours.

My suggestion: Side climb with whatever your aircraft of choice is until you are about 5-6 thousand meters, find a single target, dive on it, kill it, rocket back up to your original alt. Don't get caught up in the turn and burn ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that are furballs. Plan your attacks, play smart, and you'll realize that the "OP" Spits aren't very OP anymore.

Don't get caught up in what everyone else in an AB match is doing, especially if you are flying American and German fighers. Side climb, boom and zoom, and fight on your terms of engagment, not theirs.

I'm not the best pilot in the world, and I am certainly not the worst, but that is what I have found to work for me.