JU 87 rear gunner problem?

[widukind]

I have noticed that my rear gunner does not shoot when enemy aircraft attack me from behind. What could be the problem?

[Geno Killer]

a) He himself has been shot.

b) He's reloading.

c) His gun is jammed.

d) The enemy are coming in from a blind spot so the gunner can't actually shoot at the them (for example directly behind, just below, or from a really steep angle from above). The Ju-87 gunner doesn't really have the best range of movement for his gun.

[Der Lachende Mann]

Originally posted by Geno Killer:

a) He himself has been shot.

b) He's reloading.

c) His gun is jammed.

d) The enemy are coming in from a blind spot so the gunner can't actually shoot at the them (for example directly behind, just below, or from a really steep angle from above). The Ju-87 gunner doesn't really have the best range of movement for his gun.

On the Ju-57 d) is very likely, the Ju-87 gunner only has a really small arc of fire.

[Redtail666]

Check the fire range in test flight, then in games be sure to manuever in order to kept them out of the gunners blind spot.

[widukind]

I think this is a flaw. Just read the war memories of German JU-87 Ace Rudel (he killed more than 500 tanks with his Ju-87, and you will learn how effective German rear gunners were!
Shame on you Wartthunder!

[Kuro]

Gaijin have updated the firing arcs. The blind spot is basicaly so you can't shoot directly behind the tail. Realistic, but it hasn't been added on all aircraft yet which puts it at a bit of an unfair disadvantage.

They finaly fixed the D variants gunner though so it can now shoot below the tail like on the B variants.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by widukind:

I think this is a flaw. Just read the war memories of German JU-87 Ace Rudel (he killed more than 500 tanks with his Ju-87, and you will learn how effective German rear gunners were!
Shame on you Wartthunder!

500 tanks is highly debatable.

And no, this is not a flaw.

Originally posted by Kuro jaces dirty little nibbå <3:

Gaijin have updated the firing arcs. The blind spot is basicaly so you can't shoot directly behind the tail. Realistic, but it hasn't been added on all aircraft yet which puts it at a bit of an unfair disadvantage.

They finaly fixed the D variants gunner though so it can now shoot below the tail like on the B variants.

Stukas defenses relied heavily on large formations of typicaly 15 aicraft. Small formations or single planes generaly had to outmanuever attackers to survive.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McloM9Es3oM

EDIT: Also forgot to mention air superiority and escort. And all fronts, the aircraft was devasting when it had air superiority but became quite easy pray once it was lost (look at the battle of britain for example or during the soviet counterattack in late 1942)

[widukind]

Kuro you are just a troll.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by widukind:

Kuro you are just a troll.

Explain please?

[widukind]

Saying that a kill score is debatable may serve to discredit it but says nothing. You can debate anything. Even the validity of your own name.What matters is facts. Rudel was the most sucessful combat pilot of WWII and some research on the internet may enlighten you.
My issue however is not the Rudel legacy but the game mechanics. I think that a rear gunner must serve some purpose. At the moment the JU-87 rear gunner is just fairly useless.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by widukind:

Saying that a kill score is debatable may serve to discredit it but says nothing. You can debate anything. Even the validity of your own name.What matters is facts. Rudel was the most sucessful combat pilot of WWII and some research on the internet may enlighten you.
My issue however is not the Rudel legacy but the game mechanics. I think that a rear gunner must serve some purpose. At the moment the JU-87 rear gunner is just fairly useless.

Firstly, if you are saying that facts matter, can you give me a source for your claims?

And no, the gunner on the ju87 is not useless. The main issue with is with the aircrafts performance itself. I've gotten countless kills with the gunner on the d variants and i spent almost 2 months straight playing it in rb, destroying over 1,100 ground units with the B variant. If you play your cards, you can do very well.

[widukind]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel. "During the war, Rudel was credited with the destruction of 519 tanks, as well as a number of ships. He claimed 9 aerial victories and the destruction of more than 800 vehicles of all types. He flew 2,530 ground-attack missions exclusively on the Eastern Front, usually flying the Junkers Ju 87 "Stuka" dive bomber, and 430 missions flying fighter aircraft. Rudel was the most decorated German serviceman of World War II receiving the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Golden Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds in January 1945; the decoration was created specifically for him."

[Geno Killer]

Originally posted by widukind:

I think this is a flaw. Just read the war memories of German JU-87 Ace Rudel (he killed more than 500 tanks with his Ju-87, and you will learn how effective German rear gunners were!
Shame on you Wartthunder!

https://m.imgur.com/4hRNq3o?r

It doesn't matter that Rudel was credited with the destruction if 519 tanks, the Ju-87 D is pretty much correctly modelled in the game, and you're probably no Rudel yourself. If the enemy is attacking from your gunners blind spot then he can't shoot at him.

[Geno Killer]

Originally posted by widukind:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel. "During the war, Rudel was credited with the destruction of 519 tanks, as well as a number of ships. He claimed 9 aerial victories and the destruction of more than 800 vehicles of all types. He flew 2,530 ground-attack missions exclusively on the Eastern Front, usually flying the Junkers Ju 87 "Stuka" dive bomber, and 430 missions flying fighter aircraft. Rudel was the most decorated German serviceman of World War II receiving the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Golden Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds in January 1945; the decoration was created specifically for him."

Congratulations, you just copy and paste from Wikipedia. I hope you feel accomplished in nothingness.

In any case, Erich Hartmann, Hiroyoshi Nishizawa, and Richard Bong where probably better pilots anyway.

[widukind]

Geno Killer - Following your link makes me think that you hate Germans or the German Wehrmacht. But this is not my issue. And I am no Rudel. He was - like anyone of us - a unique human being. I am arguing that the rear gunner of the JU-87 has flaws and I do not accept the argument of the blind spot.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by widukind:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel. "During the war, Rudel was credited with the destruction of 519 tanks, as well as a number of ships. He claimed 9 aerial victories and the destruction of more than 800 vehicles of all types. He flew 2,530 ground-attack missions exclusively on the Eastern Front, usually flying the Junkers Ju 87 "Stuka" dive bomber, and 430 missions flying fighter aircraft. Rudel was the most decorated German serviceman of World War II receiving the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Golden Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds in January 1945; the decoration was created specifically for him."

You just copy and pasted a quoye from wikipedia. Notice that there are no sources linked to that. That is not a source.

Also, being credited with x amount of "kills" doesn't mean you actualy "killed" that many tanks. Whats the deffinition of a tank kill? Rudel could have shot a tank, hit it, only for it to be repaired a few hours later and back into action. Add to this too that all nations exagerated their "kills" during operation barborossa and throughout the war for propaganda. You can also get into the fact that Rudel was actualy a very poor pilot during training.

For the record, i am not denying or accepting these figures, its entirely possible that rudel could have "killed" those 500 tanks, but you should take them in with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Here's a good video that goes into a bit more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FabtgOlyhMY