AA should not be low battlerating

[pinbuck]

1.
my gameplay in realistic battle, sometimes arcade
playing as germans, like pz. IV C, tanks around that tier.
gets killed from the front in pz. 38(t) F, 50mm frontal armor facing towards american AA truck in arcade mode
seems kind of messed up
2.playing realistic mode
my last tank was killed by AA, only got a kill on a crusader from medium range
move 20 feet or so into a hill zone with pz, IV C
get killed by the AA that killed me, in which i got killed by that same AA player close to the very top left corner of the map. the AA spawn kills our team, hiding in a bush so that nobody could see him
AA preceeds to shoot enemy tanks one by one and the game ended in only like 9 minutes


fix this, warthunder.



ideas:

best fix: limit AA to not be able to fire all the way down.
since AA can depress its gun all the way to just slaughter anything with 50mm of armor or less

more serious fix: disable AA to only be able to depress its gun to a 30 degree angle, which means they'd have to position themselves out of cover on a hill in order to shoot enemy tanks.

most serious fix:
AA vehicles cannot load "armored vehicles" rounds, which seems really stupid they had them in the first place, or cannot have more than 10mm of armor penetration, which why would you need more penetration than what you're actually supposed to be shooting at

AA abusers are in every game, even some of my teamates are AA.
players don't shoot anything in the sky at all, it's very rare
everytime i enter a mission in warthunder, all i see is AA players shooting at enemy tanks
in realistic battle, AA players have a massive advantage to hitting the enemy in realistic battle, faster than any panzer tanks and sometimes even russian tanks

it's ironic that anti-air does a better job of being anti-tank than an actual tank destroyer
that's like if caityln jenner winning "woman of the year" award

tier one is basically just candy for AA, because barely any of the common tanks you meet in tier 1-1.5 have little to no armor

[Datname]

you do realise that aa firing at ground targets is historically accurate for example the 88mm was originally intedet as pure aa well and we all know how famous or infamous depending on which side of it you where it got now back to the game literally every aa at t1 is nothing but a faster version of another tank for example the flpz 1 is a pz2 but with less armor and that tanks from the 30s dont have much armor is commonly known so i dont get why your complaining

[OldMemes.biz]

I didn't read everything however where you say not to let AA fire "all the way down"

1. not all AA can depress to 0 degrees or a negative degree in the first place, or at the very least not in a practical way

2. You're basically asking Gaijin to take AA that realistically could and apply a false and artificial limitation

I don't like getting wrecked by AA in my actual legitimate tank as much as the next guy but what I like even less is arbitrary and false limitation.

[Bogey]

I noticed when playing the Japanese starter and low tier tanks that there was quite a few seal clubbers in BR 2.0 Gepards trying to take advantage of newbies in starter tanks. It's probably not good for the game in the long run.

[OldMemes.biz]

Originally posted by Bogey:

I noticed when playing the Japanese starter and low tier tanks that there was quite a few seal clubbers in BR 2.0 Gepards trying to take advantage of newbies in starter tanks. It's probably not good for the game in the long run.

I still play the Gepard from time to time and I rarely get matched against starter tanks. I don't think it happens nearly to the degree some think it does.

[Katokevin]

SPAA was often used to fire on ground targets as they were not that accurate when firing on air targets. There is no reason to remove what they actually did and could do. Most could depress to usually -3 degree range as that is often all the mountings limited. There is no reason to limit that.

AP rounds were given to them for that exact reason. It was not uncommon for the other side to bring in a light armored vehicle to deal with large automatic weapons and those guns needed to defend themselves. When you get into larger guns like the 37mm - 40mm, these are the same caliber guns that early tanks mounted and with a high RoF, there is no reason not to be cautious of that.

The reason you see them fire on ground targets more is because hitting aircraft is not an easy task, tells that aircraft where you are (and becoming the #1 target for them), and there are often no aircraft flying around for a good portion of the match. I LOVE to play SPAA, I do fire on aircraft when I can, but I will attack tanks if needed, but I only go after the tanks that have gone off on their own as it is FAR easier to take out a single targer. 2+, and I (and many others) will not attack since you have no real protection asside from a gunshield, or open top. By the time you get into a fully enclosed turret for most, your guns have little affect on the front of an enemy.

[OldMemes.biz]

Originally posted by Hey you in the bushes:

SPAA was often used to fire on ground targets as they were not that accurate when firing on ground targets. There is no reason to remove what they actually did and could do. Most could depress to usually -3 degree rage as that is often all the mountings limited. There is no reason to limit that.

AP rounds were given to them for that exact reason. It was not uncommon for the other side to bring in a light armored vehicle to deal with large automatic weapons and those guns needed to defend themselves. When you get into larger guns like the 37mm - 40mm, these are the same caliber guns that early tanks mounted and with a high RoF, there is no reason not to be cautious of that.

The reason you see them fire on ground targets more is because hitting aircraft is not an easy task, tells that aircraft where you are (and becoming the #1 target for them), and there are often no aircraft flying around for a good portion of the match. I LOVE to play SPAA, I do fire on aircraft when I can, but I will attack tanks if needed, but I only go after the tanks that have gone off on their own as it is FAR easier to take out a single targer. 2+, and I (and many others) will not attack since you have no real protection asside from a gunshield, or open top. By the time you get into a fully enclosed turret for most, your guns have little affect on the front of an enemy.

100% this could not put it better.

[Donovar]

Or jsut remove APCR from aa vehics

[pinbuck]

highlighting "AA should not be low battlerating"
as the title, as probably the main fix, to make it so you can't seal club low tier tanks

[Barty Crease]

Originally posted by Donovar:

Or jsut remove APCR from aa vehics

what?

[pinbuck]

Originally posted by Results Atypical:

I didn't read everything however where you say not to let AA fire "all the way down"

1. not all AA can depress to 0 degrees or a negative degree in the first place, or at the very least not in a practical way

2. You're basically asking Gaijin to take AA that realistically could and apply a false and artificial limitation

I don't like getting wrecked by AA in my actual legitimate tank as much as the next guy but what I like even less is arbitrary and false limitation.

im just giving feedback, and it's not on personal reasons either.
i stated that i watched our team get seal-clubbed in spawn by a camping anti-air in realistic battle in a low tier matchmaking, practically everybody on our team was getting killed from the front by an artillery

here's a scenario

anti-aircraft players, like the first russian anti-air truck
back into the corners of buildings, peaking out only their anti-air gun, which is half of the truck
anti-air players do not need to worry about shell drop, and do not have to fire 2-4 rounds until finally hitting something from a while away
most likely in that process, you will be killed by anti-air in a tank that does not have more than 50mm of frontal armor

[pinbuck]

Originally posted by Results Atypical:

I didn't read everything however where you say not to let AA fire "all the way down"

1. not all AA can depress to 0 degrees or a negative degree in the first place, or at the very least not in a practical way

2. You're basically asking Gaijin to take AA that realistically could and apply a false and artificial limitation

I don't like getting wrecked by AA in my actual legitimate tank as much as the next guy but what I like even less is arbitrary and false limitation.

plus if you read a little bit more, i pointed out some ideas of how to fix AA sealclubbing tanks and being more of a threat to tanks than tanks or SPG's themselves
highlighting "AA should not be low battle rating" as the first solution

[pinbuck]

feast your eyes. i found a video of an anti-air vehicle sealclubbing in low tier
https://youtu.be/U-ZEQjoRf4g

[relliK]

most easy way to 'fix' this ?!

just reduce the amount of RP and/or lions AA tanks are getting for destroying tanks. should they still be 'able' to destroy enemy tanks ? yes ofc - they shouldn't be sitting ducks waiting to get obliterated by attacking enemies but they also shouldn't be rewarded for completely ignoring their main role...

and yes that's exactly what is happening now (or has always been happening) - like almost everone is crying about planes in tank battles but on the other hand only like 1 out of 100 players playing an AA tank is actually going for incoming planes.

i guess if the rewards for killing enemy tanks in a AA tank would be (massively) reduced it wouldn't take long for the AA tanks either to vanish completely (^o^) or for them going for the right targets...

[Spude]

It (mostly) stops being an issue from Tier 2 and up, when most AA guns face tanks that are not made out of paper, sure weakpoints still exists and so on but it is not as ridiculous as say Gepard with HVAP ammo facing 38(t)s, BT and Panzer 3 tanks.

[Walta Gaming]

AA is easy to kill most of the time. At long ranges they have awfull pen while you can still pen them at almost any range. Most AA has very low pen values at the first 2 teirs except for the Geapard and Flackpanzer. Those 2 only have 2 crew members and if you aim for the head of the gunner you can take it out with an MG since their is no armour near the head of the gunner (headshots don't do any extra damage though unfortunantly). Other nations AA at low teir only have 26mm of pen (at point blank range on flat armour) with heavy MG's and the cannons have less then 50mm of pen below the 3.0 BR range.

The only thing that should be changed right now is the AP in the low teir German AA which should only be given to the Wirblewind and tanks with 20mm guns. Other cannon AA in the lower BR's has a less then 50mm of pen so I don't see why the Germans should get such a high pen value compaired to the other nations. I don't see Russian flack trucks or M16's running around the map destroying everybody so the low pen values seem to work for other nations anyways.