Do I miss something or are M4* so bad ?

[prokophapala]

I have really bad experience playing M4 and M4A1. I wonder If it is just my play-style and lack of knowledge (maybe there is some strength I'm not aware of ) or if it is objectively so much inferior to its competitors at BR 3.3-3.7 ?

I have to say, for me the most important aspect of tank is cannon - one-shot-kill ability (for arcades) and flat trajectory (for realistic battles). So top BR 3.3-3.7 tanks to me are PzIV F2, t-34 1941 and 1942, Stug III G, Marder III, Flak 88, M10 ).

M4 cannon sucks at both - trajectory is not flat, AP projectiles does no damage, and APHE does not penetrate. But that does not makes it automatically inferior if it is compensated by other strengths. For example, cannon of KV-1 L11 and T-34 1940 are not great, but KV has armor and T-34 mobility. Cromwell I and IV cannon with no explosive ammo does least damage of all, but Cromwell is the fastest tank at the BR. Even M24 with same crappy cannon as M4 is quite fine, thanks to its mobility. M4 is slow as hell and armor is average at best.

Recently in 1.67 update they added cannon stabilization. So I tried M4 again, but I did not see any difference. I'm actually not sure if it is active, but certainly I cannot hit anything while moving (I see no difference from other tanks without stabilizer).

[captain gimmick]

SlipNSlyde님이 먼저 게시:

Jumbo Unchained님이 먼저 게시:

Doubt all you want, mate. The truth is that US are no any worse than other nations, it's just about liking them and knowing how to play them.

There is no "newbie" friendly nation. If you can't play and rush to points you're going to get rekt no matter what.

It's about learning how to play.

Russia is newbie friendly, bounces shots and one shot kills. Super easy mode.

Still you can't argue that USA loses more than any other two nations combined! That's just a fact.

Japan says hi. America isnt as good as Russia or Germany, but it is getting better.

[Dillpickle1]

Dahak님이 먼저 게시:

ミ★ ckc | Dillpickle1 ★彡님이 먼저 게시:

Very good.. I don't think its possible to control how a shell kills a tank when all round penetrate.

Huh? If all rounds were penetrating and the T-34 survived against 5 shermans they all must have been shooting HE! Seriously, T-34s pop when you shoot them in the right spot. They keep their ammo in the bottom of the tank between the 2nd and 3rd road wheels. Shoot it there and 9/10 times it blows up.

I never said shermans. Their was probably one sherman. anda couple non American..

I never use HE...

[Dahak]

Jumbo Unchained님이 먼저 게시:

SlipNSlyde님이 먼저 게시:

Just saying that you saying USA is balanced is not exactly honest.
I don't doubt that you are good with USA tanks.
But that doesn't mean USA is balanced at all in this game. And saying so is misleading. That's all I'm saying.

Doubt all you want, mate. The truth is that US are not any worse than other nations, it's just about liking them and knowing how to play them.

There is no "newbie" friendly nation. If you can't play and just rush to points you're going to get rekt no matter what.

It's about learning how to play.

Eh, I would say US is worse off than Russia or Germany honestly. Shermans just don't hold up well against the later tier enemies, and you are stuck with them as your mediums all the way to 5.3. The only thing the US has that can hold up before 5.7 is the 75mm Jumbo, and that thing is terrible when uptiered due to the poor pen. At 5.7 they get the 76mm Jumbo, but it suffers from the same problem: the gun is bad for the BR and the armor is ineffective against the higher tier units you start seeing then.

[Lain]

I still fail to see how this game is Russian biased, as a matter of fact British and US tanks give me the most trouble, British mainly due to their weird ass armor, US due to their guns that seem to be able to pen through almost anything.

[Dahak]

I would say a big part of the problem for the US is that there isn't anything for Germany between 4.7 and 5.7. Since there are so many German players compared to US, you are constantly uptiered once you hit the 5.0 shermans. On tier, the Shermans can hold their own, but once the panthers, Tigers and IS series tanks start showing up, the Shermans have a real problem. Their guns just don't have enough pen to hit the sweet spots on the Panther and Tiger turrets effectively (though if you can get hull shots against a Tiger that isn't angled right you can wreck it easy!)

The only thing shermans really have going for them at that point is their higher ROF and better turret turn. I wiped 3 or 4 tigers onthe factory level by being in a good position to force them to expose their hulls, but that only worked because of the nature of that map. The way I see it, if you take 2 players of equal skill, the Tiger/Panther wins. They don't have to aim much against shermans while the sherman has to carefully hit a weak spot.

[captain gimmick]

SlipNSlyde님이 먼저 게시:

Dahak님이 먼저 게시:

Eh, I would say US is worse off than Russia or Germany honestly. Shermans just don't hold up well against the later tier enemies, and you are stuck with them as your mediums all the way to 5.3. The only thing the US has that can hold up before 5.7 is the 75mm Jumbo, and that thing is terrible when uptiered do to the poor pen. At 5.7 they get the 76mm Jumbo, but it suffers from the same problem: the gun is bad for the BR.

+1 on all of that.

If we're being honest, we'd have to add Brittain to that list.
That makes USA by a pretty far margin the worst nation in game.
Exactly as intended.

Japan makes the US look like the best nation ingame.

[captain gimmick]

Dahak님이 먼저 게시:

I would say a big part of the problem for the US is that there isn't anything for Germany between 4.7 and 5.7. Since there are so many German players compared to US, you are constantly uptiered once you hit the 5.0 shermans. On tier, the Shermans can hold their own, but once the panthers, Tigers and IS series tanks start showing up, the Shermans have a real problem. Their guns just don't have enough pen to hit the sweet spots on the Panther and Tiger turrets effectively (though if you can get hull shots against a Tiger that isn't angled right you can wreck it easy!)

The only thing shermans really have going for them at that point is their higher ROF and better turret turn. I wiped 3 or 4 tigers onthe factory level by being in a good position to force them to expose their hulls, but that only worked because of the nature of that map. The way I see it, if you take 2 players of equal skill, the Tiger/Panther wins. They don't have to aim much against shermans while the sherman has to carefully hit a weak spot.

I say they put the Pershings at 5.7 to 6.0. Would make the US playable at 5.7.

[Dahak]

wait I can change this?!?님이 먼저 게시:

Dahak님이 먼저 게시:

I would say a big part of the problem for the US is that there isn't anything for Germany between 4.7 and 5.7. Since there are so many German players compared to US, you are constantly uptiered once you hit the 5.0 shermans. On tier, the Shermans can hold their own, but once the panthers, Tigers and IS series tanks start showing up, the Shermans have a real problem. Their guns just don't have enough pen to hit the sweet spots on the Panther and Tiger turrets effectively (though if you can get hull shots against a Tiger that isn't angled right you can wreck it easy!)

The only thing shermans really have going for them at that point is their higher ROF and better turret turn. I wiped 3 or 4 tigers onthe factory level by being in a good position to force them to expose their hulls, but that only worked because of the nature of that map. The way I see it, if you take 2 players of equal skill, the Tiger/Panther wins. They don't have to aim much against shermans while the sherman has to carefully hit a weak spot.

I say they put the Pershings at 5.7 to 6.0. Would make the US playable at 5.7.

Agreed there! That is really where they belong anyway. The Jumbo was a field expedient counter to German heavy armor while the Pershing was a purpose built heavy tank.

[Dahak]

SlipNSlyde님이 먼저 게시:

Soviet Spy))님이 먼저 게시:

I still fail to see how this game is Russian biased, as a matter of fact British and US tanks give me the most trouble, British mainly due to their weird ass armor, US due to their guns that seem to be able to pen through almost anything.

In all fairness RU isn't nearly as untouchably OP as it once was.
But the game isn't nearly as pro Russia as it is anti-USA!
Speaking planes and tanks.

The thing that always gets Russia in trouble is their longer reload times and their truely AWFUL gun depression. A single sherman can block off an IS-2 easy if it uses the terrain right. I know this from playing as Russia. There are so many things you can't do because your gun can't depress enough.

[captain gimmick]

SlipNSlyde님이 먼저 게시:

Dahak님이 먼저 게시:

Agreed there! That is really where they belong anyway. The Jumbo was a field expedient counter to German heavy armor while the Pershing was a purpose built heavy tank.

That might work and might even balance tanks a bit, which is exactly why it will never happen.
The sooner you see the agenda that team USA must lose, the less you need to spend time arguing about the specifics. Again, tanks and planes.

You do know America just got the T34, which is a match for the King Tiger? And that the Jumbo is the best tank at its tier?

[Dahak]

SlipNSlyde님이 먼저 게시:

Dahak님이 먼저 게시:

Agreed there! That is really where they belong anyway. The Jumbo was a field expedient counter to German heavy armor while the Pershing was a purpose built heavy tank.

That might work and might even balance tanks a bit, which is exactly why it will never happen.
The sooner you see the agenda that team USA must lose, the less you need to spend time arguing about the specifics. Again, tanks and planes.

If that was the case they wouldn't have added in the T34 (US heavy) at 6.7. That thing is a US Tiger 2.

[Dahak]

wait I can change this?!?님이 먼저 게시:

SlipNSlyde님이 먼저 게시:

That might work and might even balance tanks a bit, which is exactly why it will never happen.
The sooner you see the agenda that team USA must lose, the less you need to spend time arguing about the specifics. Again, tanks and planes.

You do know America just got the T34, which is a match for the King Tiger? And that the Jumbo is the best tank at its tier?

The 1st Jumbo is pretty good. The second is awful. It fights at 5.7 with the US 76mm. It does get the APCR round so it can actually pen things, but APCR is a far cry from APHE shells from the German guns or the IS-2's monster cannon.

[captain gimmick]

Dahak님이 먼저 게시:

wait I can change this?!?님이 먼저 게시:

You do know America just got the T34, which is a match for the King Tiger? And that the Jumbo is the best tank at its tier?

The 1st Jumbo is pretty good. The second is awful. It fights at 5.7 with the US 76mm. It does get the APCR round so it can actually pen things, but APCR is a far cry from APHE shells from the German guns or the IS-2's monster cannon.

I was talking about the first Jumbo, the second is trash.

[Dahak]

I will say I prefer the 76mm to most british guns at that tier. British tanks are seriously undergunned from 4-5. The Sherman VC is good, but their other guns have a hard time even when you hit the sweet spots. Particularly the Churchill. That thing has a useless gun.

[Illusionyary]

ミ★ ckc | Dillpickle1 ★彡님이 먼저 게시:

The turret is rounded and so is the rest of the tank.... All rounds penetrate..

You won't penetrate the hull with anything but the 76mm guns. The 75s will fail to penetrate the frontal slope, but putting one round into the turret cheeks will one shot the tank.

SlipNSlyde님이 먼저 게시:

That's great that you love USA tanks.
But that M62 is nowhere near as one shot as Russia!
Anyway here we are discussion individual vehicles which always goes nowhere. The one fact that can't be denied is that planes and tanks, USA loses the most, by far the most. And that pretty much sums it up.

Because people are bad, and I don't understand why. M62 shot one shots VERY well, and it has more penetration than any of the T-34-76s APHE rounds, yet still, American players suck. It's really not hard... 75mm M62 shot is so powerful that you can one shot a giant tank like the Chi-Ri II through the front, killing all the crew, with no issues at all.