Are 13mm guns by anymeans effective?

[mp81996]

When you think about it, 13mm guns are slightly bigger than 50cal's (12.7mm) only by .03 mm

And .50 cals are quite the guns whether if you are using them in rank I MM with tanks Spaa m16 for example or P-47 and P-51's with their .50 cals.

Anyways I watch PhlyDaily. He and Krebs are my youtubers to watch when it comes to what to know about any tank or plane in War Thunder and the one thing that made me think (insert Genius meme) Why did Phly say "If these were American .50 cals this "thing" would be dead" the thing he was shooting at. Only that the 13 mills are slightly bigger than the .50s

Now I know its not a huge difference but when you think about it, its specifically the 238 I'm trying to talk about. It's an amazing plane, I can make up to 50k credits with it on a good game that is.

That plane has 16 13mm guns 12 of them are set to protect your six and the 4 up front with the 20s on the roof

You would think firepower like that, a plane on your six would stand no chance against 12 guns shooting right at it only I don't think my guns are really hitting the target even if I have my reticles right on the trajectory of his movements and it will say I'm "Hitting" him but it seems he always takes me down even if I put my entire payload into his fuselage.

So wheres the logic in that? are German guns really that weak?

[Illusionyary]

All MGs under 13mms were buffed, which means that 13mms weren't, and are still mostly useless.

[mp81996]

Originally posted by Illusionyary:

All MGs under 13mms were buffed, which means that 13mms weren't, and are still mostly useless.

:/ that sucks.

[Hans Klok]

13mm work well with IAI and air belts in simulator. Quite useless for RB and AB. Even took me quite a few rounds with it to take out a tier 1 P26.

[DarthHammer]

Apparently the M2 has more primer in it's rounds than the Axis 12.7 and 13mm shells, which is why it performs better.

[weaslecookie7]

low bullet velocity i think

[Ruiツ]

They maybe useless, but they do what they need to do.

[Ruiツ]

Originally posted by Caesar Salad:

Originally posted by Quiet †JE†SUS†:

low bullet velocity i think

They're meant to recreate the same speed of the 20mm so it won't be a pain in the ass to aim with them.
They also have no stealth belts

They do.

[Blitzkrieg Wulf]

Alright, so.... lets break this down since there seems to be a fundamental misconception(s) about 12.7/13mm.

The US/British .50 caliber M2 shoots 12.7x99.
The German 13mm is 13x64B.
The Russian 12.7mm is 12.7x108.
The Japanese and Italian 12.7's were 12.7x81SR.

Case dimensions aren't always a surefire way to tell which gun is the most powerful, as bullet velocity and bullet weight are what's truly important, but they are telltale signs.

So, to boil this down to the question of, "Are they effective or not?":

The German 13mm produces about 9,600 joules of energy at the muzzle with a 34 gram bullet.
The American .50 produces about 16,250 joules of energy at the muzzle with a 40 gram bullet.


TL;DR, not only is the 13mm starting out with less energy, it will drop the energy off faster, and it's more important to have a close engagement range to deal good damage.
So, yes, it's going to be far more potent than a .30 cal MG, but it will not be nearly as potent as the .50 BMG, despite being a larger caliber.

Originally posted by Caesar Salad:

Originally posted by Rui:

They do.

I recall seeing the air targets and tracers, tracers having like 50mm of pen

13x64B capable of penetrating (nearly) 2" of steel plate? I don't buy it.

[Blitzkrieg Wulf]

Originally posted by Caesar Salad:

Originally posted by Blitzkrieg Wulf:

13x64B capable of penetrating (nearly) 2" of steel plate? I don't buy it.

I'll check later, not sure if it was the 15mm, but they were mounted on the BF-109 F4

There's the MG 131 (13x64B, 750m/s), which, while it isn't weedy, isn't anywhere near as strong as the .50 BMG (Which, can only penetrate ~1" of steel plate)

There's the MG151/15 (15x96, 850m/s), which despite having smaller caliber than MG151/20 I believe is much, much higher velocity, and yes, with AP-I(c) bullets has 50mm pen at (more or less) point blank.

Also, the MG151/15 is also used as motorcannon on Bf109 F-2.

I wasn't sure which you were talking about, but I wasn't going to believe a MG131 penetrating 50mm :\

[Spaddobird]

The German 13mm machine guns should be very effective against aircraft, they did have high explosive filler if I recall correctly. That doesn't seem to be simulated in this game as the German 13mm machine guns are barely better than the 7mms.

[≠バイト]

Go look at the size of the 13mm round and compare it to an american .50 bmg then you'll know why

[mp81996]

okay

[Blitzkrieg Wulf]

Originally posted by kymsheba:

WRONG!!!!

The 13mm is Historically BIGGER, HEAVIER, more punching power and it is what it is a bigger, more damaging bullet than the .50 cal.

What your trying to say for example is a MINI MINOR (.50 cal) does more damage to another car than a SEMI-Trailer (13mm) would in a collision.

What you are saying is not only wrong but defies logic.

Please, do elaborate.

[Putin The Gun To Ukraine]

Originally posted by kymsheba:

Originally posted by Blitzkrieg Wulf:

Alright, so.... lets break this down since there seems to be a fundamental misconception(s) about 12.7/13mm.

The US/British .50 caliber M2 shoots 12.7x99.
The German 13mm is 13x64B.
The Russian 12.7mm is 12.7x108.
The Japanese and Italian 12.7's were 12.7x81SR.

Case dimensions aren't always a surefire way to tell which gun is the most powerful, as bullet velocity and bullet weight are what's truly important, but they are telltale signs.

So, to boil this down to the question of, "Are they effective or not?":

The German 13mm produces about 9,600 joules of energy at the muzzle with a 34 gram bullet.
The American .50 produces about 16,250 joules of energy at the muzzle with a 40 gram bullet.


TL;DR, not only is the 13mm starting out with less energy, it will drop the energy off faster, and it's more important to have a close engagement range to deal good damage.
So, yes, it's going to be far more potent than a .30 cal MG, but it will not be nearly as potent as the .50 BMG, despite being a larger caliber.





13x64B capable of penetrating (nearly) 2" of steel plate? I don't buy it.

WRONG!!!!

The 13mm is Historically BIGGER, HEAVIER, more punching power and it is what it is a bigger, more damaging bullet than the .50 cal.

What your trying to say for example is a MINI MINOR (.50 cal) does more damage to another car than a SEMI-Trailer (13mm) would in a collision.

What you are saying is not only wrong but defies logic.

What the hell are you on about

[Vriz]

Originally posted by kymsheba:

Originally posted by Blitzkrieg Wulf:

Alright, so.... lets break this down since there seems to be a fundamental misconception(s) about 12.7/13mm.

The US/British .50 caliber M2 shoots 12.7x99.
The German 13mm is 13x64B.
The Russian 12.7mm is 12.7x108.
The Japanese and Italian 12.7's were 12.7x81SR.

Case dimensions aren't always a surefire way to tell which gun is the most powerful, as bullet velocity and bullet weight are what's truly important, but they are telltale signs.

So, to boil this down to the question of, "Are they effective or not?":

The German 13mm produces about 9,600 joules of energy at the muzzle with a 34 gram bullet.
The American .50 produces about 16,250 joules of energy at the muzzle with a 40 gram bullet.


TL;DR, not only is the 13mm starting out with less energy, it will drop the energy off faster, and it's more important to have a close engagement range to deal good damage.
So, yes, it's going to be far more potent than a .30 cal MG, but it will not be nearly as potent as the .50 BMG, despite being a larger caliber.





13x64B capable of penetrating (nearly) 2" of steel plate? I don't buy it.

WRONG!!!!

The 13mm is Historically BIGGER, HEAVIER, more punching power and it is what it is a bigger, more damaging bullet than the .50 cal.

What your trying to say for example is a MINI MINOR (.50 cal) does more damage to another car than a SEMI-Trailer (13mm) would in a collision.

What you are saying is not only wrong but defies logic.

The 13mm is a bigger round, sure, but the issue is...The 13mm is firing on an inferior platform compared to the Brownings.

AFAIK, you could allieviate the difference by firing HE rounds since HE rounds don't factor in shell velocity to deliever more pen like AP-based rounds do.