How does the armor debuff work?

[CADÊ O DECRETO?]

I'm looking for armor, my character has high stealth, theft and assassination, the others will just be fighters with nothing special besides healing, but I noticed that the best armor, for example the samurai, has a debuff in skills. how it works? Will they just gain less xp? they are around 30 strength and 30 melee and defense. Is it worth getting good armor now or is it better to increase your skills even more?

[Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia]

Some skills are affected by "stronger enemy logic", Melee attack and defence both are. If the enemy is "stronger" than you you earn more xp, if your stats are debuffed the enemies are relatively stronger.

Most debuffs from Samurai armour are of little to no concern for a melee fighter with a weapon, and it is almost always worth getting the best armour you can. Samurai is the best overall, but Crab armour is better for a tank (or at least the breastplate is).

[Shidan]

No, they are full stat penalties. If something has a x0.75 penalty, it means their stat will be reduced by 25% when using the item. Because this is a multiplier, it means that higher levels will suffer a higher penalty.

There's not really a good or bad time to start wearing heavy armour, it's just a tradeoff. Whether you want the durability the armour provides, or the stats.

Imo, the fewer warriors you have, the more the durability of the armour is worth. A team of warriors can get by with light armour with stat bonuses instead, while a solo would probably be better served by armour, etc.

[CADÊ O DECRETO?]

Originally posted by Shidan:

No, they are full stat penalties. If something has a x0.75 penalty, it means their stat will be reduced by 25% when using the item. Because this is a multiplier, it means that higher levels will suffer a higher penalty.

There's not really a good or bad time to start wearing heavy armour, it's just a tradeoff. Whether you want the durability the armour provides, or the stats.

Imo, the fewer warriors you have, the more the durability of the armour is worth. A team of warriors can get by with light armour with stat bonuses instead, while a solo would probably be better served by armour, etc.

ok, so this debuff takes away the status I already have? Doesn't interfere with XP gain, would that be it? so the lighter the armor the better.

durability? Do weapons and armor break? I didn't find this number in the status

[jerrypocalypse]

There's no weapon/armor durability

[Triple G]

Originally posted by Sovi - PFLP:

ok, so this debuff takes away the status I already have? Doesn't interfere with XP gain, would that be it? so the lighter the armor the better.

To explain how it works in detail is probably a bit long, but all in all it depends what You want to achieve. In the end most debuffs from armor equal out while playing, because it means You get higher stats. With light armor You get lower stats. So if You want to have the highest stats - You´d go with heavy armor, and then switch to light armor, while You can also play the game with only light armor, which is also better for stealth.

Originally posted by Sovi - PFLP:

durability? Do weapons and armor break? I didn't find this number in the status

He means durability of the fighter, as armor reduces the damage You take. While toughness does it as well.. With heavy armor and high toughness You take next to no damage. With high toughness and light armor You take medium damage, same as with heavy armor and low toughness. With low toughness You take extra damage, and light armor usually doesn´t prevent much damage / has not a good armor coverage.

[CADÊ O DECRETO?]

Originally posted by Triple G:

Originally posted by Sovi - PFLP:

ok, so this debuff takes away the status I already have? Doesn't interfere with XP gain, would that be it? so the lighter the armor the better.

To explain how it works in detail is probably a bit long, but all in all it depends what You want to achieve. In the end most debuffs from armor equal out while playing, because it means You get higher stats. With light armor You get lower stats. So if You want to have the highest stats - You´d go with heavy armor, and then switch to light armor, while You can also play the game with only light armor, which is also better for stealth.

Originally posted by Sovi - PFLP:

durability? Do weapons and armor break? I didn't find this number in the status

He means durability of the fighter, as armor reduces the damage You take. While toughness does it as well.. With heavy armor and high toughness You take next to no damage. With high toughness and light armor You take medium damage, same as with heavy armor and low toughness. With low toughness You take extra damage, and light armor usually doesn´t prevent much damage / has not a good armor coverage.

I think I understand, I can use the armor as long as the type of weapon I'm using is not affected by the armor's debuff, would that be it?

in a group of 4 people I have 2 characters using heavy plank weapons, one using katana and one using saber. Is it better to have at least 1 in the group with each type of weapon? such as one with a katana that deals damage to humans without armor penetration, another with a plank for area damage, another with a saber or haste for damage to animals and one with damage to robots?

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

The armor you'll want to choose likely depends on which type of character you are playing, which role it needs to perform and what enemy are you facing.

The heavier the armor the more penalties it has associated with it. Although this is not necessarily bad and it can even be helpful for training purposes.

The penalties are associated to the TYPE of armor and not the quality. Therefore, there is very little reason to wear a heavy armor of bad quality, with the penalties associated to it, when you can opt for a higher quality piece of leather that offers the same or better protection.

The penalties of each piece are added together so if you are wearing a full samurai suit your effective stealth, for example, will be basically 0.

Characters based on strength and blunt weapons, and characters that perform a tank role do not really need to care too much about the debuffs. They want the most protection so theu can keep functioning.

Characters based on dexterity or stealth do need to be a bit more mindful. Cut weapon damage is based on dexterity, so weapons like katanas and sabers might not perform as well as they could if you are dexterity impaired.

All that said, at later stages in the game you face powerful enemies, and the protection granted from the samurai armor helps a lot maintaining characters alive and in one piece.

[CADÊ O DECRETO?]

Originally posted by Disciple.:

The armor you'll want to choose likely depends on which type of character you are playing, which role it needs to perform and what enemy are you facing.

The heavier the armor the more penalties it has associated with it. Although this is not necessarily bad and it can even be helpful for training purposes.

The penalties are associated to the TYPE of armor and not the quality. Therefore, there is very little reason to wear a heavy armor of bad quality, with the penalties associated to it, when you can opt for a higher quality piece of leather that offers the same or better protection.

The penalties of each piece are added together so if you are wearing a full samurai suit your effective stealth, for example, will be basically 0.

Characters based on strength and blunt weapons, and characters that perform a tank role do not really need to care too much about the debuffs. They want the most protection so theu can keep functioning.

Characters based on dexterity or stealth do need to be a bit more mindful. Cut weapon damage is based on dexterity, so weapons like katanas and sabers might not perform as well as they could if you are dexterity impaired.

All that said, at later stages in the game you face powerful enemies, and the protection granted from the samurai armor helps a lot maintaining characters alive and in one piece.

Thank you, it helped me a lot, one more thing.

I know that later on I will face robots, for example. My team has people with katana and it is not effective against robots, do I need to carry a weapon that is good against them? or late game is independent, because I won't have to level them with a cleaver that deals damage to robots and has armor penetration.

Or can my characters become so strong that even the weapon they are using is independent of the enemy?

[Triple G]

Originally posted by Sovi - PFLP:

I think I understand, I can use the armor as long as the type of weapon I'm using is not affected by the armor's debuff, would that be it?

Let´s say You fight any enemies in the game and end up having 30 attack if You use an armor, which doesn´t affect the attack stat.

If You do the same with a light armor, which gives +8 attack, You´ll end up with having 22 attack, because +8 it would be 30.

If You do the same with a heavy armor, which gives -5 attack, You´ll end up with 35 attack, because -5 it´s 30.

If You switch from the heavy to the light armor You would have 43 attack, because 35+8.


Else the only thing worth looking for is something like the dexterity debuff (if You don´t care for stealth). Because that means You block slower with any weapon, and cutting damage will be lower - but to counter that You have higher armor stats. Or of course the crossbow debuff if You use crossbows - while there again: every debuff makes it so, that You get higher stats (faster).


If You want to do stealth - i´d either go with light armor, or with the black plate armor, while the latter is the convenient option, as it adds to acid resistance, while providing 100% armor coverage. Assassin rags look more stylish though...

Originally posted by Sovi - PFLP:

in a group of 4 people I have 2 characters using heavy plank weapons, one using katana and one using saber. Is it better to have at least 1 in the group with each type of weapon? such as one with a katana that deals damage to humans without armor penetration, another with a plank for area damage, another with a saber or haste for damage to animals and one with damage to robots?

Imho what weapons doesn´t matter much. It´s mainly about the time it takes to takes certain enemies out. Katana is probably better in 1vs1 situations and vs enemies with little armor, and something like a plank will stagger and hit many people around them, which prevents to get forced into blocking constantly instead of ever attacking.

Also if You´re looking for better or best - i´d switch the Katana for a Nodachi or Topper. Nodachi is longer, so You gain skills faster, and Topper adds a bit off blunt damage and has not so big penalties against certain things. Katana looks nice though, because You can have if at the side, so it doesn´t clip through the backpack if You wear any - or allows for wearing a crossbow, to switch from ranged to melee if needed.

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

Originally posted by Sovi - PFLP:

Originally posted by Disciple.:

The armor you'll want to choose likely depends on which type of character you are playing, which role it needs to perform and what enemy are you facing.

The heavier the armor the more penalties it has associated with it. Although this is not necessarily bad and it can even be helpful for training purposes.

The penalties are associated to the TYPE of armor and not the quality. Therefore, there is very little reason to wear a heavy armor of bad quality, with the penalties associated to it, when you can opt for a higher quality piece of leather that offers the same or better protection.

The penalties of each piece are added together so if you are wearing a full samurai suit your effective stealth, for example, will be basically 0.

Characters based on strength and blunt weapons, and characters that perform a tank role do not really need to care too much about the debuffs. They want the most protection so theu can keep functioning.

Characters based on dexterity or stealth do need to be a bit more mindful. Cut weapon damage is based on dexterity, so weapons like katanas and sabers might not perform as well as they could if you are dexterity impaired.

All that said, at later stages in the game you face powerful enemies, and the protection granted from the samurai armor helps a lot maintaining characters alive and in one piece.

Thank you, it helped me a lot, one more thing.

I know that later on I will face robots, for example. My team has people with katana and it is not effective against robots, do I need to carry a weapon that is good against them? or late game is independent, because I won't have to level them with a cleaver that deals damage to robots and has armor penetration.

Or can my characters become so strong that even the weapon they are using is independent of the enemy?

It is good to have variety, but later on the numbers of enemies become too high and all users need to be competent regardless of weapon choice.

I would suggest having some basic variety, but besides covering all bases, select the weapons you like the most.

[Bomb Bloke]

Originally posted by Disciple.:

The penalties of each piece are added together so if you are wearing a full samurai suit your effective stealth, for example, will be basically 0.

If the numbers display + or - then you take the sum. However, you usually only get those sort of buffs or debuffs on combat skills.

Percentage-based figures are not "added" together, but rather they're multiplied together instead. For example, the Samurai Boots with their 0.02x multiplier will basically nuke your Stealth just on their own, and there isn't any vanilla gear that can effectively counteract them. You'd need a 50x multiplier for that.

Originally posted by Sovi - PFLP:

ok, so this debuff takes away the status I already have? Doesn't interfere with XP gain, would that be it? so the lighter the armor the better.

Armour penalties improve your skill gain, up to a point. The weaker you are, the more combat related XP you get. Although obviously you won't learn how to swing a sword if you end up unconscious on the ground...

See the Stronger Opponent Logic section of Shidan's Notes:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2570870493

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

Originally posted by Bomb Bloke:

Originally posted by Disciple.:

The penalties of each piece are added together so if you are wearing a full samurai suit your effective stealth, for example, will be basically 0.

If the numbers display + or - then you take the sum. However, you usually only get those sort of buffs or debuffs on combat skills.

Percentage-based figures are not "added" together, but rather they're multiplied together instead. For example, the Samurai Boots with their 0.02x multiplier will basically nuke your Stealth just on their own, and there isn't any vanilla gear that can effectively counteract them. You'd need a 50x multiplier for that.

I never knew they multiplied together. I always thought the total penalty was additive. It is nice to know.

[CADÊ O DECRETO?]

Originally posted by Bomb Bloke:

Originally posted by Disciple.:

The penalties of each piece are added together so if you are wearing a full samurai suit your effective stealth, for example, will be basically 0.

If the numbers display + or - then you take the sum. However, you usually only get those sort of buffs or debuffs on combat skills.

Percentage-based figures are not "added" together, but rather they're multiplied together instead. For example, the Samurai Boots with their 0.02x multiplier will basically nuke your Stealth just on their own, and there isn't any vanilla gear that can effectively counteract them. You'd need a 50x multiplier for that.

Originally posted by Sovi - PFLP:

ok, so this debuff takes away the status I already have? Doesn't interfere with XP gain, would that be it? so the lighter the armor the better.

Armour penalties improve your skill gain, up to a point. The weaker you are, the more combat related XP you get. Although obviously you won't learn how to swing a sword if you end up unconscious on the ground...

See the Stronger Opponent Logic section of Shidan's Notes:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2570870493

The stealth penalty counter is easy to deal with, just take off your armor with 75 and no one will see you even with your pants on.

I just wanted to know if the penalty reduces the xp gain, for example the mercenary's armor has a dexterity penalty, is this armor worth it for those who use dexterity? The effect of the penalty takes away the xp gain or takes it away from the total I have, I have 50 dexterity does it take away .75% of the total? or 0.75% less xp

[jerrypocalypse]

Originally posted by Sovi - PFLP:

Originally posted by Bomb Bloke:

If the numbers display + or - then you take the sum. However, you usually only get those sort of buffs or debuffs on combat skills.

Percentage-based figures are not "added" together, but rather they're multiplied together instead. For example, the Samurai Boots with their 0.02x multiplier will basically nuke your Stealth just on their own, and there isn't any vanilla gear that can effectively counteract them. You'd need a 50x multiplier for that.



Armour penalties improve your skill gain, up to a point. The weaker you are, the more combat related XP you get. Although obviously you won't learn how to swing a sword if you end up unconscious on the ground...

See the Stronger Opponent Logic section of Shidan's Notes:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2570870493

The stealth penalty counter is easy to deal with, just take off your armor with 75 and no one will see you even with your pants on.

I just wanted to know if the penalty reduces the xp gain, for example the mercenary's armor has a dexterity penalty, is this armor worth it for those who use dexterity? The effect of the penalty takes away the xp gain or takes it away from the total I have, I have 50 dexterity does it take away .75% of the total? or 0.75% less xp

It takes away from your skill score, not the XP

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

Originally posted by Sovi - PFLP:

Originally posted by Bomb Bloke:

If the numbers display + or - then you take the sum. However, you usually only get those sort of buffs or debuffs on combat skills.

Percentage-based figures are not "added" together, but rather they're multiplied together instead. For example, the Samurai Boots with their 0.02x multiplier will basically nuke your Stealth just on their own, and there isn't any vanilla gear that can effectively counteract them. You'd need a 50x multiplier for that.



Armour penalties improve your skill gain, up to a point. The weaker you are, the more combat related XP you get. Although obviously you won't learn how to swing a sword if you end up unconscious on the ground...

See the Stronger Opponent Logic section of Shidan's Notes:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2570870493

The stealth penalty counter is easy to deal with, just take off your armor with 75 and no one will see you even with your pants on.

I just wanted to know if the penalty reduces the xp gain, for example the mercenary's armor has a dexterity penalty, is this armor worth it for those who use dexterity? The effect of the penalty takes away the xp gain or takes it away from the total I have, I have 50 dexterity does it take away .75% of the total? or 0.75% less xp

Experience is not reduced. It is actually the contrary. Intentionally applying penalties to stats is actually one way you can level it faster by using stronger opponent logic.

Not all stats use that logic, but for those who do, it is actually helpful.