Wives and Kids?

[Rhowin]

Will the game ever allow relationships and children? So cities seem more lively with kids, and you can start a Legacy of your own family?

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ BURDEN OF TIME ᕦ( ᐖ )ᕤ:

Just visit a surgeon and rename a char. "Jane the Waifu", "Bob the Husbando", and presto.

Whether it is hard or not to implement a feature doesn't change the devs having explicitly said it is not in their ~vision~ for the game.

I am all for voicing opinions about future features, but when it needs to be repeatedly stated that marriage is neither planned for, nor even a desire to implement, by the devs there really ain't much to discuss.

Or you can pick up modding I suppose. Why wait on the devs while you can try and work it out on your own?

Just ~opinions~, nothing more.

Saying, Hey, it would be nice if the Dev added Marrage to the game isn't whining or demanding something unreasonable, it's perfectly plausable that in this world, people would be in love and wish to marry. Or, they could see it as a better chance of survival. (The Holy Nation already has Wives, so what's so hard about adding that for us?)


Why not just get a mod? Well, because I dislike mods for many reasons, three of those I'll mention here.

1. Lazy devs who use the excuse of "It's moddable" to not make a quality product. I refuse to accept this, IT'S YOUR GAME, YOU BUILD IT AND MAKE IT GOOD, don't force the players to do it for you.


2. Viruses and other attacks can be easily hidden within mods. Do you really know what EVERY bit of code stashed in all those mods you have does? One of the worst ones in recent years was so brutally simple, it was only 4Kb in size, that's very hard to detect. I'm not saying they happen all the time, but they DO happen, and given that my computer is not easily replaced if destroyed, I prefer to avoid the risk.

3. to a smaller extent, and kinda much lower on the list than the last two, but mentioned here.
Players who just can't be satisfied with what is in game and add their own stuff. Now, some of the things I've seen done by modders IS AWESOME, and I've been tempted to get some of them. But a lot of mods are not impressive, don't fix any issues the game had, and only add something minor, like the inumerable boob / nude mods for various games. Or, like the Nova mod for FNV, suddenly makes New Vegas be invaded by Star Craft Marines and Ghosts, or others who add things that make no sense in the setting of the game. (Why U do dis?)

I stay within the game as it was made by the Dev, good or bad. (I've REALLY thought about getting workshop stuff for Space Engineers, but I want to figure it out on my own.)

[Hatsune Neko Gaming]

Modding does indeed have risks but on Steam it's managed and scanned for malicious content. also you can get viruses surfing the net so that excuse doesn't work, sorry. just being online is a risk.

Its not devs being lazy, it's them giving you the option to add what they didn't originally want in the game.

Marriage and children is not a huge request, its rather small so the likelihood of it being added is Zero, not to mention the Dev has said several years ago this won't be added...

Feature requests are now at the stage of modifying current features or things that take very little to code in. as it is the core game is set. it's now fluff pieces and last of the content that's being added.

For this idea to come in
Coding a system for marriage has to be added. Coding in for the small human like NPCs has to be added not to mention the skins and skeletons for children. also a way for them to grow has to be added. and since its Kenshi everyone will have to have this ability, so tracking who is married and who has kids and their current growth cycle has to be coded in.

though on a side note, most game companies don't like having killable children, and i'm sure the Dev would make it so you couldnt kill them either.

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by HaTsUnE_NeKo:

Modding does indeed have risks but on Steam it's managed and scanned for malicious content. also you can get viruses surfing the net so that excuse doesn't work, sorry. just being online is a risk.

Its not devs being lazy, it's them giving you the option to add what they didn't originally want in the game.

Marriage and children is not a huge request, its rather small so the likelihood of it being added is Zero, not to mention the Dev has said several years ago this won't be added...

Feature requests are now at the stage of modifying current features or things that take very little to code in. as it is the core game is set. it's now fluff pieces and last of the content that's being added.

For this idea to come in
Coding a system for marriage has to be added. Coding in for the small human like NPCs has to be added not to mention the skins and skeletons for children. also a way for them to grow has to be added. and since its Kenshi everyone will have to have this ability, so tracking who is married and who has kids and their current growth cycle has to be coded in.

though on a side note, most game companies don't like having killable children, and i'm sure the Dev would make it so you couldnt kill them either.

On the note of killing kids, yeah, I wouldn't want to see that, Fallout 1 and 2 did it, but yeah.

I support the idea of being able to Marry though, because it can be easy to do and it adds more immersion and realism to the game. I'm not sure about adding kids, since I agreed that that can be hard, but "You're hot and I feel great, let's get married!" "Okay" isn't hard.

Third, While SOME dev's do in fact leave the game open for mods to add things, more and more are using that as a crutch to pass off unfinished or poorly made games recently and use the excuse of, "Well it's moddable, so you can add what you want". That is my point regarding lazy devs.

[Erei]

It was talked before, I'd support marriage only if they have some gameplay stuff alongside. Not marry for the sake of marrying, and forget afterward (see Skyrim). In the most popular mod for Mount and Blade (diplomacy), your wife/husband have a role (diplomacy mostly).
This is not a game with fully fledged companion like Bioware games, in those games romance is important by itself. And while the quality of them have been steadily decreasing since KOTOR, they are still a part of the story, an optional one.

As for kid, people have to remember who long it takes IRL. Even in a game with faster time speed, it would still take ages to end a pregancy, let alone have the child able to speak his/her first words. The only alternative would be to speed up the game drastically, but it would be ridiculous (leave your baby to trade around, come back and he is already speaking and walking alone). It's been a while, but from memory Fable had long (read years) period of time where your were forcibly away because of the plot.


Tl:DR : marriage only if it's useful for something besides marrying. Which means lot of work, and the dev don't want to to begin with.

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by Monsieur Connard:

It was talked before, I'd support marriage only if they have some gameplay stuff alongside. Not marry for the sake of marrying, and forget afterward (see Skyrim). In the most popular mod for Mount and Blade (diplomacy), your wife/husband have a role (diplomacy mostly).
This is not a game with fully fledged companion like Bioware games, in those games romance is important by itself. And while the quality of them have been steadily decreasing since KOTOR, they are still a part of the story, an optional one.

As for kid, people have to remember who long it takes IRL. Even in a game with faster time speed, it would still take ages to end a pregancy, let alone have the child able to speak his/her first words. The only alternative would be to speed up the game drastically, but it would be ridiculous (leave your baby to trade around, come back and he is already speaking and walking alone). It's been a while, but from memory Fable had long (read years) period of time where your were forcibly away because of the plot.


Tl:DR : marriage only if it's useful for something besides marrying. Which means lot of work, and the dev don't want to to begin with.

That's why I suggested it as a light addition, since it makes sense.

Your point about children being a very involved process is a good one.

[Aurelia]

Originally posted by Peregrine:

Third, While SOME dev's do in fact leave the game open for mods to add things, more and more are using that as a crutch to pass off unfinished or poorly made games recently and use the excuse of, "Well it's moddable, so you can add what you want". That is my point regarding lazy devs.

Yet, that isn't the case here. You should hate the devs for the games that do this, not modding itself ;p. That is like hating farmers because you have a distaste for onions.

[Danteet]

It definitley wouldnt be hard to create a dialogue package for wives and husbands, like asking people to marry you or vice versa. I would have to experiment with it but I think I could get it done.

[Hatsune Neko Gaming]

the point about being able to marry was said above.
what does it do for game play? does it add anything? a slight bit of emersion yea but nothing else., if you want that just change there names. it's a simple solution for a feature that currently has nothing to add to the game.

Mount and Blade was a good example where being married has a effect in game play and therefore perfectly valid reason for it to be in the game.

[Danteet]

Just because someone speaks up and says they dont want it because of X, doesnt mean someone else doesnt want it. You may think its dumb, but someone else could think its worth it to add something with personaility to the game. If you dont want it Neko, then dont sub to it.

[Aurelia]

Originally posted by Xx BoD xX:

Just because someone speaks up and says they dont want it because of X, doesnt mean someone else doesnt want it. You may think its dumb, but someone else could think its worth it to add something with personaility to the game. If you dont want it Neko, then dont sub to it.

I'm not sure Neko was responding to you, but to the feature request as a whole.
I've seen people request marriage, but aside from procreation, i've not really seen a good argument as to what it would bring to the game, even for those who want it.

So that's a good question to ask.. What exactly is it that people see in a marriage feature, other than procreation?

[Weaver]

Originally posted by Peregrine:

I support the idea of being able to Marry though, because it can be easy to do and it adds more immersion and realism to the game. I'm not sure about adding kids, since I agreed that that can be hard, but "You're hot and I feel great, let's get married!" "Okay" isn't hard.

What does just that add to the game though? A UI indicator saying 'married to x'? Adding that to the game without giving it meaning is pointless. And if it were there, without further meaning, people would clamor for it to "actually matter" or think it was a bug that it does nothing.

At a minimum, I think that to add any meaning to this we'd need at least some of:

• Married people work better when near each other.
  
• Married people work worse when apart from each other.
  
• Married people get upset over damage other takes.

Having effects about happiness and mood that are only related to marriage would be strange. Adding a generalized happiness or mood system to the game would fundamentally alter base gameplay of everything else, as you'd suddenly need to keep everyone happy all the time or they'd get in fights and what have you, and we'd be moving into Rimworld/dwarf fortress/the Sims areas.

Also, just being able to marry any two people because you feel like it feels kinda wrong, so at this point we'd probably want a finer-tuned like/dislike system where you can work toward winning someone over.

And generally, my point is adding more systems to a game doesn't make it better, only different. Personally I'd play the hell out of a game that was a mashup of The Sims and XCOM, that's probably even where I'd go if I was making my own game, but that doesn't mean I want to be managing people's relationships like this in Kenshi.

More systems also make a game more fragile, at least when it comes to "systems that control what AI characters want to do with their lives".

Finally, as far as I know, the dev has only said "That's not part of the game I want to make", the "mod it if you want it" is coming from other people. Also, it's not presently something that could be modded as far as I know.

(As an aside, having 'randomly less than adult' human characters that generally use the animal growth system looks almost doable as is, just needs some data fields added to control spawn aging on the editor side. I support that, having adolescent/young adult sized people mixed in would be cool)

(Note: looks like 5-6 messages were posted while I was writing this, don't have the energy to address more right now)

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by HaTsUnE_NeKo:

the point about being able to marry was said above.
what does it do for game play? does it add anything? a slight bit of emersion yea but nothing else., if you want that just change there names. it's a simple solution for a feature that currently has nothing to add to the game.

Mount and Blade was a good example where being married has a effect in game play and therefore perfectly valid reason for it to be in the game.

I love M&B Warband.

I thought about that Deplomacy Mod, but I don't have it. I'm about to break out of the Swadian Kingdom and make my own though, King Harlus owns most of the map and has been at war with all the other factions for months and I'm tired of his ♥♥♥♥ and constantly being raided by his enemies. I own Yalen and Suno, with a few thousand troops to guard them, so I have a fair shot.

I have an idea.

Why not make it so that if you have a married couple, and they're near each other, they gain a small stat boost to some skills, and get a small buff in combat, because if your wife is in danger, you would fight harder to save her, and she would fight to save you.

[Aurelia]

Making me want to install M&B again. Though with my past week's pattern, i'll install it, play it for 10 minutes, and then want to do something else entirely.
Make up your mind Lumi.

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by Luminaire:

Originally posted by Peregrine:

Third, While SOME dev's do in fact leave the game open for mods to add things, more and more are using that as a crutch to pass off unfinished or poorly made games recently and use the excuse of, "Well it's moddable, so you can add what you want". That is my point regarding lazy devs.

Yet, that isn't the case here. You should hate the devs for the games that do this, not modding itself ;p. That is like hating farmers because you have a distaste for onions.

I did mention that I have contempt for those devs, and I also did not mention Kenshi's devs as being among those. I like Kenshi a lot, but I will admit I do feel it's lacking a few things.

Not quite sure how to respond to your comment about hating mods, I didn't say I hate them, I don't use them, I feel the dev should make a better game, not rely on the community to fix things.

[Hatsune Neko Gaming]

Weaver has a good point on it.
and nope Xx BoD xX, i wasn't responding to you but on a general level. and i never said i didn't want it, i was just saying and asking what does it add to the game. to where i or others would actually want it in the game. for me it has to have a function or a purpose, a reason. and personally i don't see that with how it's been currently suggested.

Weaver is the closest to actually having an idea of how it could go.