Tommy Gun muzzle flash is wrong, please fix

[ION * WINTER]

With great delight I saw the update on the Tommygun an decided to try it out.I noticed ingame that when the gun fires, the muzzle flash it creates is a flower or star pattern flash which is technically wrong.

Let's explain a few basic concepts of flash hiders.

Flash hiders were created, as the name implies, to obscure as much as possible the muzzle flash of the gun, in order not to reveal the soldiers' position to the enemy, and be less blinding to the user during nightime firing.This happens by venting the hot gasses of each shot sideways, instead of directly in front out, of the muzzle.

Consequently, as such, the shape of a muzzle flash hider dictates how the pattern of the flash will show.The star patterm muzzle flash, occurs with a specific type of flash hiders known as 'bird cage' type that has longitudinal slots accross the device.This allows the gasses from each shot to be diverted around the muzzle, hence the flower pattern flash.Usually these are found in modern assault rifles, like typically the M16/AR15 family.

Yet the tommy gun, created at the early 1900's, has a different, less sophisticated if you will, flash hider.It is known as Cutts flash hider.This has slots only on the upper side to the muzzle, therefore vents the gasses only upwards.

Just some technical details you should look up, since people that know a bit about guns play your game.

P.S. I know Tripwire doesnt read this.

[Underdog]

Originally posted by HATE THYSELF:

Originally posted by Underdog:

Meanwhile, I've fired some pretty basic firearms, but I live in New Jersey so it's not very likely I'll be getting my hands on a Tommy Gun anytime soon.

Fact is, your thread title seems to try to predict the end of days for Tripwire, while instead you are complaining about something maybe 5% of the playerbase will even notice. If you can't see the irony in that, I don't know what to tell you. If thread title was, "Tommy Gun muzzle flash is wrong, please fix," I wouldn't have wasted my thumbs

Since the title seems to irk you, there, I changed it.I fail to see however how the previous title tries 'to predict the end of days of Tripwire' (?)

"You've got it all wrong" vs "One thing on one weapon is 'wrong'"

[ION * WINTER]

Originally posted by Underdog:

Originally posted by HATE THYSELF:

Since the title seems to irk you, there, I changed it.I fail to see however how the previous title tries 'to predict the end of days of Tripwire' (?)

"You've got it all wrong" vs "One thing on one weapon is 'wrong'"

It is a figure of speech, which I think you understand.

[johnginnj]

Originally posted by HATE THYSELF:

With great delight I saw the update on the Tommygun an decided to try it out.I noticed ingame that when the gun fires, the muzzle flash it creates is a flower or star pattern flash which is technically wrong.

Let's explain a few basic concepts of flash hiders.

Flash hiders were created, as the name implies, to obscure as much as possible the muzzle flash of the gun, in order not to reveal the soldiers' position to the enemy, and be less blinding to the user during nightime firing.This happens by venting the hot gasses of each shot sideways, instead of directly in front out, of the muzzle.

Consequently, as such, the shape of a muzzle flash hider dictates how the pattern of the flash will show.The star patterm muzzle flash, occurs with a specific type of flash hiders known as 'bird cage' type that has longitudinal slots accross the device.This allows the gasses from each shot to be diverted around the muzzle, hence the flower pattern flash.Usually these are found in modern assault rifles, like typically the M16/AR15 family.

Yet the tommy gun, created at the early 1900's, has a different, less sophisticated if you will, flash hider.It is known as Cutts flash hider.This has slots only on the upper side to the muzzle, therefore vents the gasses only upwards.

Just some technical details you should look up, since people that know a bit about guns play your game.

P.S. I know Tripwire doesnt read this.

Very good detail ! I look this up and true. Wow! TWI is read forum, so can maybe read. TWI is best and is always try hard for us.

Thank you for so much knowledge.

[Bread Boat]

>implying as if the Tommy Gun was added by convenience and not because it was voted for in a community poll asking players what Killing Floor 1 weapons they wanted to see return to Killing Floor 2 that makes up a clear majority since the majority and most vocal of players are the ones Tripwire have relied on for support since the days of KF1

[Dr. Wicked]

Tripwire guys actually read these, just not the guys in charge of making the fix. That's why the 3rd person gunshot sound for the Winchester and Centerfire are still almost mute.

[ION * WINTER]

The reason I did this was not to show off or be picky as some implied.TW themselves first did get into lengths to change with this update the parameters of the gun into something more believable as well as more playable.

That's why they changed the rate of fire as well as the accuracy of the gun accordingly, so why not it's visual characteristics?

BTW here's a video how it looks like:

https://youtu.be/rzryxgMLn38

[Zero Taicho]

The gun's appearence isn't correct. This fellow pointed that out, being helpful. Y'all whine and cry that he's being trivial. Christ on a bike, chill with the bootlicking.

OP, ya did good.

[Max's.Will.It]

Gonna admit, the dude weren't kidding, I mean look.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1576340604

[JtDarth]

The Cutts was not a flash hider. It was a muzzle brake, not flash hider. Hence why it is called the Cutts compensator and not the Cutts flash hider.
If you are going to try to big-brain about errors with guns, for the love of god at least be correct in your terminology.

That said, the flash isn't correct, but, uh, really not a big deal.

Going to do some in-game checking, and then edit with findings.

*EDIT*
Yeah most guns do appear to have at least similar to correct flash (from first person at any rate).
Easy method if TW feels lazy but decides to fix the flash on the Tommy would be to use the deagle's existing flash. It throws it upward the way a cutts compensator would, and while not completely correct, would be a lot closer than what we have ATM.

[ION * WINTER]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

The Cutts was not a flash hider. It was a muzzle brake, not flash hider. Hence why it is called the Cutts compensator and not the Cutts flash hider.
If you are going to try to big-brain about errors with guns, for the love of god at least be correct in your terminology.

Yeah, I was lazy a bit, I admit it. :)

[Foster]

This is some pretty trivial bullcrap, there's more important things to worry about than muzzle flashes. This is more of a QoL thing to do after the game is balanced better and such.
I love guns as much as the next guy, and pay great attention to weapons in games even while I'm playing, and even I don't care about something like this that much at all.

Originally posted by Underdog:

How do we know the Tommy gun used in this game wasn't manufactored more recently and thus uses a different flash hider? Why does it have to be a 1900s Tommy gun?

Regardless of if it was manufactured recently, there is very clearly a Cutts compensator on the weapon and no matter how freshly manufactured it is, it'll always have the same flash pattern.
As well, even if it's a replica it's specifically a replica of a Thompson M1928 given it has a vertical forgegrip and drum magazine.

[🅱oviet 🅱adjur]

It's not new that twi has gotten somewhat lazier for recent weapons releases like fal is still missing a mag release and casings ejects from the barrel and the mkb42 is missing a mag release.

[Foster]

Originally posted by Soviet Badger:

It's not new that twi has gotten somewhat lazier for recent weapons releases like fal is still missing a mag release and casings ejects from the barrel and the mkb42 is missing a mag release.

Those were some fairly big oversights, as you can rather clearly see where the mag releases on those weapons should be and of course where the shells should be ejecting from.
This, however, is not laziness, it's just not noticeable enough to anyone to matter to any realy degree.

I really don't understand why you'd waste time throwing criticism at every tiny little detail like this, when there's plenty to actually criticize that's tangible and justifiable to do so.

[Zero Taicho]

Originally posted by Foster:

Originally posted by Soviet Badger:

It's not new that twi has gotten somewhat lazier for recent weapons releases like fal is still missing a mag release and casings ejects from the barrel and the mkb42 is missing a mag release.

Those were some fairly big oversights, as you can rather clearly see where the mag releases on those weapons should be and of course where the shells should be ejecting from.
This, however, is not laziness, it's just not noticeable enough to anyone to matter to any realy degree.

I really don't understand why you'd waste time throwing criticism at every tiny little detail like this, when there's plenty to actually criticize that's tangible and justifiable to do so.

Because TWI profess to be 'gun nuts' and take pride on their gun models? Because the art team isn't the same as the programmers, and therefore won't detract from 'tangible and justifiable' problems? Trying to use a fallacy of relative privation when its not even the same people working on it is pretty low. Trying to say noone will notice it when the OP obviously did is also fallicious.

The muzzle flash is wrong. That's a fact. You don't have to get angry about it. Just accept that it is what it is.

[Guonejo]

LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE