Newb question: Why so hard?

[Gargoyle Girl]

I keep reading people saying the game is too easy. I also recently read something about how the number of players is decreasing steadily as time goes on.

Now, not to say anything against the idea of new modes, more varied attacks, better balancing, more bosses, and so on, but... why do people think it would be better to make this game impossible for new players to get into?

If the game starts out where it's so hard new players can't take any time to learn how things work, wouldn't that be a BAD thing? Or is the mentality of current gamers equal to 'git gud or GTFO'? Do current, established players think any new players should either master the game and all it's features instantly or not start playing, or... what?

[screeno42]

People aren't calling for the whole game to be harder; they just want the difficulty at the tippy top that is literally called HELL on earth to be dificult as hell. Right now it is hard but only if your team doesn't work together and coordinate.

[Rocknack]

To be fair, this game never held your hand when you were new to it. I do remember that it was tough for me to get the hang of it and master the steps from normal to hard/ suicidal to HoE. Those who wish for the game to be harder are the hardcore longterm fans who only find pleasure in HoE. It's perfectly fine to find the game challenging.

[Bad Harmony]

In my opinion all the difficulties, for novice players, should be the skill circle where they belong, like competitive ranks in games like csgo. A beginners starts with normal, and they can learn basics, consolidate their skills, reach higher perk(s) level, and then move to hard. Hard difficult, which should open a new challenge. Repeat the process and we reach suicidal, higher skills required and, this time, you gotta prove you can be an effective element for your team. HoE should be the ultimate challenge, an unforgivable mess where losing is quite probable and where only a seriously effective and coordinated team can win, putting a great effort in waves and boss as well as satisfation in case of victory.

This is how I imagine the difficulty concept; reality is much different. Retarded perk training servers, suicidal and hoe too viable, unbalanced scaling and unnecessary buffs to certain perks, that often makes the experience pretty dull and not challenging at all, where the only thing that gives satisfation is the drop on match end.

Saying "game is too easy" is not accurate but it summarizes the fact that difficulties don't feel up to their names.

[SɅV☯]

Hell on Earth is the difficulty that most players want to actually be hard. I play HoE daily, and thankfully, I am finally not seeing sub-15 perks even try to join HoE anymore.. HoE was hard in KF1 at first, eventually it got dumbed down a bit, and with some knowledge of mechanics and critical spots you could literally be doing 360s 1-2 hitting (depending on perk) just about everything in sight. HoE IS hard now *without* a premade/competent team, and due to the sheer spawn volumes, if your team wipes, its almost impossible to kite around the map. HoE SHOULD infact be difficult, but certain things are broken after this last patch, like zombie movement speed, the volume of spawns around the corner infront of you when you are trying to kite, stalkers in doorways, etc. HoE achievements should be something looked up to, fantasized about.. Not something easily attained by some reetarded doorknob that's fresh off the super perk levelling map. KF1 was NOT friendly to new players at all, and neither should KF2.

[Dave]

Originally posted by darena_bryant:

I keep reading people saying the game is too easy. I also recently read something about how the number of players is decreasing steadily as time goes on.

Now, not to say anything against the idea of new modes, more varied attacks, better balancing, more bosses, and so on, but... why do people think it would be better to make this game impossible for new players to get into?

If the game starts out where it's so hard new players can't take any time to learn how things work, wouldn't that be a BAD thing? Or is the mentality of current gamers equal to 'git gud or GTFO'? Do current, established players think any new players should either master the game and all it's features instantly or not start playing, or... what?

Its not impossible for new players to get into. People can learn in normal and hard, problem is alot seem to jump into hoe or sui probably without realising it but isnt it kinda obvious that this or any game would have different difficulties ?????

Case in point I play on hoe mostly and today i joined a server and two lvl 0s joined one with 0 hours in game the other with 0.4 hours, needless to say they died very easily. Hoe should be worked up to by players who play it regularly but it is too easy with a team of friends who play alot and can be too hard with a public group but then its fun to have the challenge and it not be a walkover.

Also as other people have mentioned the difficulty scaling is kinda biased towards the more players being on a server the easy it is. 2 players on hoe is alot harder than 6 imo specifically on the early waves where ammo might be an issue.

There are mods out there that make normal hoe look very easy and maybe they could be somehow incorporated into the base game for those who want even more of a challenge, though i dont know how that would work.

[Violet]

Game has been fully released and i don't feel like the game it's easy, since i only play with public parties and never leveled through Training Maps, the game seems balanced, actually entertaining and challenging if you keep up with the standards. (0-5 normal, 6-12 hard, 13-24 suicidal, 25 HoE)

The actual problem is that, pretty much of the players around seem to level up perks with Training Maps, which is bad, because of the difficulty DOES NOT require perk level, it requires player experience in game mechanics and habilities that are learnt through the real gameplay.

Lots of people actually play Hard-Suicidal at max perk level and say it's easy, and that's a fact, this "easy game" problem is old and think it has been fixed.

[Kotory]

Idk what people say, but the biggest % of people who beats most popular HoE map - Outpost is ......... 1.5% of all players.
For decent team its not the problem, thats true. But mostly all play pab games, where even current HoE is hard enough.
Only absolutely minority of players - veterans, rly need more tough difficulty lvl.

[CursedPanther]

Originally posted by Kotory:

Idk what people say, but the biggest % of people who beats most popular HoE map - Outpost is ......... 1.5% of all players.

Basically this.

It's meaningless trying to form a conclusion outta random claims by nobodies on the forum. Steam stats don't lie.

[Gargoyle Girl]

Originally posted by |<Bad Harmony☯:

In my opinion all the difficulties, for novice players, should be the skill circle where they belong, like competitive ranks in games like csgo. A beginners starts with normal, and they can learn basics, consolidate their skills, reach higher perk(s) level, and then move to hard. Hard difficult, which should open a new challenge. Repeat the process and we reach suicidal, higher skills required and, this time, you gotta prove you can be an effective element for your team. HoE should be the ultimate challenge, an unforgivable mess where losing is quite probable and where only a seriously effective and coordinated team can win, putting a great effort in waves and boss as well as satisfation in case of victory.

This is how I imagine the difficulty concept; reality is much different. Retarded perk training servers, suicidal and hoe too viable, unbalanced scaling and unnecessary buffs to certain perks, that often makes the experience pretty dull and not challenging at all, where the only thing that gives satisfation is the drop on match end.

Saying "game is too easy" is not accurate but it summarizes the fact that difficulties don't feel up to their names.

I'd be willing to support the additon of a form of play that keeps people who aren't a certain level out of harder stages of the game. I've tried playing pick up games and gotten people playing hard with 0 level perks... and subsequently dying instantly, or nearly so. If they made it that you had to be a certain level to play a certain difficulty, it would help insure than no one without at least some of the game-given skills were playing in levels they were guaranteed to die in, thus making the entire team die later on.

[Gargoyle Girl]

Originally posted by Rocknack:

It's perfectly fine to find the game challenging.

Never said it wasn't, or meant to suggest so either. I enjoy a certain level of challenge in the game too... but playing your hardest only to lose over and over makes me have headaches in a very literal way.

I'm sure new players coming into the game and dying over and over with a bunch of jerky boy teammates would feel much the same... and I'm old-school enough to think people play games to have fun, rather than a conniption. xD That's all I was saying.

[Gargoyle Girl]

Originally posted by §ȺѴѦ₲Σ☯💀:

Hell on Earth is the difficulty that most players want to actually be hard. I play HoE daily, and thankfully, I am finally not seeing sub-15 perks even try to join HoE anymore.. HoE was hard in KF1 at first, eventually it got dumbed down a bit, and with some knowledge of mechanics and critical spots you could literally be doing 360s 1-2 hitting (depending on perk) just about everything in sight. HoE IS hard now *without* a premade/competent team, and due to the sheer spawn volumes, if your team wipes, its almost impossible to kite around the map. HoE SHOULD infact be difficult, but certain things are broken after this last patch, like zombie movement speed, the volume of spawns around the corner infront of you when you are trying to kite, stalkers in doorways, etc. HoE achievements should be something looked up to, fantasized about.. Not something easily attained by some reetarded doorknob that's fresh off the super perk levelling map. KF1 was NOT friendly to new players at all, and neither should KF2.

I've landed in a few of those 'leveling maps' and they honestly confuse and annoy me to no end. What's the point of standing around while one person with a flame thrower and infinite ammo burns down a wave of enemies, then thinking you're 'high level'? It's like... if you're that f'n stupid and lazy as to think having someone rush you to max level makes you good at a game, how did you even log into it in the first place? Did mommy do it for you?

[Gargoyle Girl]

Originally posted by TriggersAuntie:

Its not impossible for new players to get into. People can learn in normal and hard, problem is alot seem to jump into hoe or sui probably without realising it but isnt it kinda obvious that this or any game would have different difficulties ?????

This was my partial misunderstanding. It seemed that people were calling for a general toughening of all aspects of the game, not just the HoE levels. I thought that would be more likely to drive players away from starting to play. But I see now most people just want the harder/hardest levels to be more difficult to reflect their names. Of course I think the game should have different levels for people of varying skills! :P

My idea is that the various levels of difficulty be off limits to people who aren't playing a perk that matches that difficulty's level requirements. For example, no one could even choose HoE unless the perk they were using was 25, and if they *did* join at that level then try to switch to a lower one (say in order to troll the other players) those perks would be inaccessible, forcing them to either leave the game or try something else... or just play and help out, like they're supposed to.

[Gargoyle Girl]

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

Originally posted by Kotory:

Idk what people say, but the biggest % of people who beats most popular HoE map - Outpost is ......... 1.5% of all players.

Basically this.

It's meaningless trying to form a conclusion outta random claims by nobodies on the forum. Steam stats don't lie.

I wouldn't call it 'meaningless' to try to understand people' mindsets on a subject. :P As the saying goes, 'The only bad question is the one left unasked.'

And though these people might seem like 'random nobodies' to you (or at least you feel like calling them that) they're the people who have this opinion, and make up at least a fair part of the more long standing player base... the ones who, if they leave, will probably cause this game to tank as unprofitable. It makes sense to keep your foundation solid if all it takes is a higher difficulty for those who want it.

[CursedPanther]

Originally posted by darena_bryant:

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

Basically this.

It's meaningless trying to form a conclusion outta random claims by nobodies on the forum. Steam stats don't lie.

I wouldn't call it 'meaningless' to try to understand people' mindsets on a subject. :P As the saying goes, 'The only bad question is the one left unasked.'

And though these people might seem like 'random nobodies' to you (or at least you feel like calling them that) they're the people who have this opinion, and make up at least a fair part of the more long standing player base... the ones who, if they leave, will probably cause this game to tank as unprofitable. It makes sense to keep your foundation solid if all it takes is a higher difficulty for those who want it.

The point is this is what we call the vocal minority. If you think catering to them is what you consider solidifying the foundation, no wonder this game isn't gaining new traction.

[Gargoyle Girl]

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

Originally posted by darena_bryant:

I wouldn't call it 'meaningless' to try to understand people' mindsets on a subject. :P As the saying goes, 'The only bad question is the one left unasked.'

And though these people might seem like 'random nobodies' to you (or at least you feel like calling them that) they're the people who have this opinion, and make up at least a fair part of the more long standing player base... the ones who, if they leave, will probably cause this game to tank as unprofitable. It makes sense to keep your foundation solid if all it takes is a higher difficulty for those who want it.

The point is this is what we call the vocal minority. If you think catering to them is what you consider solidifying the foundation, no wonder this game isn't gaining new traction.

Nah.

I think people like yourself who attempt veiled insults just because might be the problem. But that's just me, I'm sure.

If all you have is snark and vague hostility to offer, and your mind is made up to the extent that you can't consider another point of view, don't even bother replying; just go on about your business.