discussions of barricades problem

[Gules Wine]

it's better (v1.0.7) but it still seems to me that the new approach kills all the fun, in the previous parts I earn coins and build defense, balancing the economy, but now I just get all the barricades at once and for some reason they are limited, this approach forces you to always go one way immediately building the final and only correct version of defense, it's not as fun as before
1) the limitation was based on the economy and you had to start with not the best strategy, when you can put only 1-2 barricades, this added puzzles
2) the growth of defense was more systematic and related to the economy, so you can move on to a better strategy for placing barricades later your ideas do not have a "limit"


And the funniest thing is that they constantly mention threads/cards, something that does not depend on you in any way, except for your time, you have to make an infinite number of attempts to get a chance to play for fun

P.S. And yes I have no difficulties with passing the game, a small part of people do not understand the negative, that it is not about the difficulty, the thing is that you are not so interested in playing it anymore

[SizroSpunkmire]

You nailed it with the comment about being forced to immediately build towards the final defense. Barricades placement on wave 1 shouldn’t have to consider wave 6, but that’s what I’m doing and it kinda sucks.

[NARK0SIS]

YES!!! This exactly. I started playing this tonight. And while I LOVE all of the new additions, skill tree, etc, I was getting reeeeally annoyed that I couldn't make use of all of these new HUGE maps that just beg to be "mazed out" with barricades.

And I get the idea they are going for and Im all for it, in the overall gameplay. But they should at least give (something like) +2 per wave, instead of it being a potential random card that can either be +1 or +2 (from what I've seen so far). Especially if we are only limited to a certain amount of 1x1 boxes, for the entire map. And I was really hoping it would be 16 per player in multiplayer. But no, its 8 per person...

Correct me if Im wrong, but I didn't see anywhere, where I could swap/equip a 2x1 like from the last game? Hell I would even be fine if we had the standard 1x1s, and we could equip the larger ones in the other slots and pay for them.

But once again, I just started playing tonight. So maybe I just haven't "gotten there yet".

[Mez Koo]

Yeah I get what they were going for with the barricade changes but it kills most experimentation and growth without increased barricade limit and long barricades. Kind of sad that the roguelike format promotes experimentation and adaptability but with hard limit it really boxes you into a specific area.

On the bright side, that happy juice shot to the monkey brain when barricade threads show up.

[NARK0SIS]

Originally posted by Mez Koo:

...but it kills most experimentation and growth without increased barricade limit and long barricades.

Exactly, and thats whats always been fun about this franchise. And now we have a rogue-like version of it... meant to be more dynamic, fresh/new, every time you do/run it... But they neuter one of the fundamental components/mechanics of the "fun"... I just don't get it lol

[SizroSpunkmire]

The irony of the rogue like mechanic is that once you figure out the optimal barricade position, you stop trying new things bc you know what works and are punished for deviating from it.

[NARK0SIS]

Originally posted by SizroSpunkmire:

The irony of the rogue like mechanic is that once you figure out the optimal barricade position, you stop trying new things bc you know what works and are punished for deviating from it.

lol thats funny you say that, I mentioned that same thing to my buddy. I initially (a couple days before release) didn't know they made this game into a rogue-like. Was definitely skeptical, and still am.

Im very curious how quickly this will get "old" if the maps/doors arent dynamic as well. I brought that exact same point up to my friend. It will get old pretty quick if its the same method/layout every time. ESPECIALLY with a set/limited barricade amount.

[Syrris]

I'm often finding the opposite when it comes to barricade placement: I don't need to set my barricades for wave 6 on wave 1 because by the time I get to wave 6 I have so much coin that I can just flood the newly-opened areas with traps that nothing will get through, or if that isn't feasible due to the geometry, pull up barricades from earlier, now trap-swamped areas and move them to the problem ones.

[Gules Wine]

Originally posted by Syrris:

I'm often finding the opposite when it comes to barricade placement: I don't need to set my barricades for wave 6 on wave 1 because by the time I get to wave 6 I have so much coin that I can just flood the newly-opened areas with traps that nothing will get through, or if that isn't feasible due to the geometry, pull up barricades from earlier, now trap-swamped areas and move them to the problem ones.

Yeah, you can spam everything with traps without building interesting mazes, but damn, is that really interesting?
That's what I'm talking about, the game is not difficult, the game is not interesting

[Kanjo42]

As long as I've been playing this franchise, I've always been about creating a single kill zone and making everything go there, and watching it all run like a well-oiled lethal machine. This barricade limitation is breaking my interest. Hell, even if there was some kind of wave progression like 1-2 more barricades per wave. I've been getting to the end of a run with a lot of extra coin just sitting there and nothing I care about to spend it on, because I can't do what I want to do. Guess I'll put up some more ballistas? Wheeee.

[Zouls]

I think its a good system but yeah its never going to achieve what you are asking for which is to brute force every map and ignore every premade route of the map to just maze out long amounts for enemies to go through.

its definitely made to barricade off routes rather than make mazes because you dont really need mazes, but i also think there are some amazing natural kill boxes on the maps that people are ignoring in their fervor of going "its not the same"

every map is different, some has crazy bridges where you can destroy everything, some has roof areas where you can slow enemies and just demolish them. som,e has more walls to pass which makes walls better.

also interestingly enough im not a fan of the whole reset time limited amounts that is familiar to the game series which is fine, but since the orcs will ALWAYS take ANY PATH that leads to the goal even if its slightly slower it means you can deliberately keep 2 or 3 paths open and place slower traps there or traps that can jam without them being over bloated into a single area.

[Caridor]

Originally posted by SizroSpunkmire:

The irony of the rogue like mechanic is that once you figure out the optimal barricade position, you stop trying new things bc you know what works and are punished for deviating from it.

That's why most roguelikes either randomly generate a map or assemble it out of prebuilt rooms.

It would have been tricky with OMD's mechanics but I think that with such a tiny map pool (lowest of any in the series), I think some more variation is neccesary and no, the goop that stops you placing traps in certain areas is NOT it.

[Zouls]

Originally posted by Caridor:

Originally posted by SizroSpunkmire:

The irony of the rogue like mechanic is that once you figure out the optimal barricade position, you stop trying new things bc you know what works and are punished for deviating from it.

That's why most roguelikes either randomly generate a map or assemble it out of prebuilt rooms.

It would have been tricky with OMD's mechanics but I think that with such a tiny map pool (lowest of any in the series), I think some more variation is neccesary and no, the goop that stops you placing traps in certain areas is NOT it.

have you seen map corruption yet? genuine question, as it spawns goo that forces you to build around it, and is actually a somewhat interesting take on forcing different barricade placemenets, we had to entirely swap up ours the second time we got hedge because the corruption covered where we set it before and it made us realize we could create a far better killzone over the bridge.

its random if its there unless you take the distortion.

Though i think instead of a distortion that guarantees it and the scramble modifier that forces a random loadout (which i think should be kept across all maps instead of random shuffled) would function better as "corruption modifiers" to make the game harder and maybe give more skulls.

[Caridor]

Originally posted by Zouls:

Originally posted by Caridor:

That's why most roguelikes either randomly generate a map or assemble it out of prebuilt rooms.

It would have been tricky with OMD's mechanics but I think that with such a tiny map pool (lowest of any in the series), I think some more variation is neccesary and no, the goop that stops you placing traps in certain areas is NOT it.

have you seen map corruption yet? genuine question, as it spawns goo that forces you to build around it, and is actually a somewhat interesting take on forcing different barricade placemenets, we had to entirely swap up ours the second time we got hedge because the corruption covered where we set it before and it made us realize we could create a far better killzone over the bridge.

its random if its there unless you take the distortion.

Though i think instead of a distortion that guarantees it and the scramble modifier that forces a random loadout (which i think should be kept across all maps instead of random shuffled) would function better as "corruption modifiers" to make the game harder and maybe give more skulls.

Please read the second paragraph of the previous post. Yes, I have seen the goop that stops you building traps.

Frankly, I absolutely despise that mechanic. The first time I encountered it, it slapped it right in the only choke point between the rift and a spawn point that was a gnat's foreskin away from the rift so I had to stop the entire wave without traps, in a distance so small that I'm amazed they didn't just spawn in the rift.

Here's the thing about stopping you placing traps: traps are where the FUN is!!!

Let me have fun, please, I am begging you devs. Allow me to have fun.

[Zouls]

Originally posted by Caridor:

Originally posted by Zouls:

have you seen map corruption yet? genuine question, as it spawns goo that forces you to build around it, and is actually a somewhat interesting take on forcing different barricade placemenets, we had to entirely swap up ours the second time we got hedge because the corruption covered where we set it before and it made us realize we could create a far better killzone over the bridge.

its random if its there unless you take the distortion.

Though i think instead of a distortion that guarantees it and the scramble modifier that forces a random loadout (which i think should be kept across all maps instead of random shuffled) would function better as "corruption modifiers" to make the game harder and maybe give more skulls.

Please read the second paragraph of the previous post. Yes, I have seen the goop that stops you building traps.

Frankly, I absolutely despise that mechanic. The first time I encountered it, it slapped it right in the only choke point between the rift and a spawn point that was a gnat's foreskin away from the rift so I had to stop the entire wave without traps, in a distance so small that I'm amazed they didn't just spawn in the rift.

Here's the thing about stopping you placing traps: traps are where the FUN is!!!

Let me have fun, please, I am begging you devs. Allow me to have fun.

but you cant simulatneously agree with the complaint that the game is "solved" with barricade placements never changing and then complain that a mechanic forces you to change where you place your barricades.

Maybe if your idea of fun means ignoring every single map to just make the same traps and never utilizing how the maps are cleverly designed to make natural kill boxes then this game isnt for you

[Gules Wine]

Originally posted by Zouls:

I think its a good system but yeah its never going to achieve what you are asking for which is to brute force every map and ignore every premade route of the map to just maze out long amounts for enemies to go through.

its definitely made to barricade off routes rather than make mazes because you dont really need mazes, but i also think there are some amazing natural kill boxes on the maps that people are ignoring in their fervor of going "its not the same"

every map is different, some has crazy bridges where you can destroy everything, some has roof areas where you can slow enemies and just demolish them. som,e has more walls to pass which makes walls better.

also interestingly enough im not a fan of the whole reset time limited amounts that is familiar to the game series which is fine, but since the orcs will ALWAYS take ANY PATH that leads to the goal even if its slightly slower it means you can deliberately keep 2 or 3 paths open and place slower traps there or traps that can jam without them being over bloated into a single area.

I think I wrote that the problem is not in the difficulty, so examples of how to win do not make sense. The problem is that they took away the gameplay that many people loved, because of which people chose this game, people do not like it, the game naturally fails, do you really want the sunset of this series of games?