Grim Dawn

Grim Dawn

View Stats:
Surreal May 5, 2022 @ 4:53am
new addon
why change a AAA game or make a next one which possibly fails?

they should make a new addon maybe ice themed with basaltcaves and icegiantworld and vikings.
new classes could be barbarian or pathfinder.

what do you think? you want a new addon? maybe you have your own ideas?
< >
Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Angel666 May 5, 2022 @ 5:00am 
I would like some one do decent game like this within dark ages with camlot King Arthur camlot etc with nice story.

Not played this game enough or got any the current addons. To comment on a new addon.

But the style game play upgrade system is very nice so far just would like see same kind thing with new story new world map in the world of camlot maybe.
Originally posted by Surreal:
why change a AAA game or make a next one which possibly fails?

they should make a new addon maybe ice themed with basaltcaves and icegiantworld and vikings.
new classes could be barbarian or pathfinder.

what do you think? you want a new addon? maybe you have your own ideas?

Crate have made it clear for some time now that there'll be no more expansions for the game.

As for why not

"Why are we not just jumping on GD2 - for one thing, I've been making ARPGs for like 18 years and I need a break. I think also to really improve upon GD and compete with D4 and whatever PoE is doing next, we'll need to make a big investment and have some fresh ideas. We'll also need to either overhaul our engine or jump into Unreal or whatever. On that topic, someone mentioned going to Unreal, which would certainly almost guarantee great graphics... however, ARPGs require some special consideration when it comes to engine architecture and Unreal is not natively designed for that type of performance. The tools are also not great for an ARPG. We'd have to do some engine work and a lot of tool work and after that, we'd be starting from scratch in terms of ARPG combat / features. It would be a lot less work to overhaul GD.

Also, 5% engine fee would be millions of dollars and it's not like we can just assume in advance we'll get some sort of offer for an exclusive that is worth enough to offset, which I am doubtful would be the case.

On the other hand..."But GD is an old engine and...." Do you know how old Unreal is?! Part of what has kept up from making major graphics updates to GD is that we are burdened with having to support the specs we put out years ago, for older directX versions and operating systems. We can't just update the game in a way that will break it for existing users who have to play on older machines. A jump to a sequel though gives us an opportunity to start fresh, cut support for older shader models and directX versions, hardware specs, and allow us to greatly modernized the engine. If you scrap the renderer and start over there, it's not like the age of whatever you keep matters - it's basically like a new engine. Beyond the engine component, we have an entire ARPG codebase we can then use, which cuts out a ton of work. Even if we go in a direction drastically different from GD, there are a lot of fundamentals to ARPG gameplay that take time to program and get working just right. It would be easier and lower risk to start from a point of being able to say "what do we want to change, cut, add" to an existing codebase.

Not sure what direction we'll go in terms of engine but it's not a straightforward choice. There are big pros and cons either way.

GD is also still doing quite well - last year was our highest earning year by far and this year it looks like we're on track to meet or exceed revenue from 2016, when GD released.

As someone pointed out above, we have no investors or publisher and I am the sole owner, so you can imagine I'm doing pretty okay and my biggest motivation is not to maximize profits at this point. And really, that's great for fans because chasing profits often leads to decisions that are not beneficial for players.

Why a town builder? Well, I loved the genre when I was younger and I've always wanted to make one. I also wanted to take a break from such content-heavy games as ARPGs and do something that was more pure gameplay. I also think it is almost guaranteed to break even and will probably make a pretty nice profit. I also wouldn't say town builders don't sell - just look at Banished, which has sold around 2m copies. Sure, no town builder has numbers like the Diablo franchise but there isn't actually a lot of competition in that genre compared to ARPGs. We have two huge competitions with Diablo and PoE, plus various smaller ones, and ARPG players will often stick to a game for years. Wolcen was lucky to release when they did but if we start on GD2, it's very likely, we'll be releasing alongside the next Diablo (again) and whatever PoE does next.

One thing I think a lot of people fail to consider when they look at financial success of games is the development cost. Sales don't directly equal profit - profit is what you're left with once you deduct dev costs from sales revenue. So there is something to be said for a project that maybe has lower sales potential but also has a much lower development cost. As far as this city builder goes, we won't need to sell that many copies to break even, so I think we're almost guaranteed to make a nice profit on it.

Finally, while we do intend to return to GD in the future, we don't want to be a one-trick pony. There is definite value and stability in establishing multiple successful franchises vs. just churning out the same game year after year, hoping people don't get tired of it. The idea that a developer who made ARPGs can only make ARPGs is a very publisher-like sentiment. We ran into this very skepticism when we pitched Titan Quest and the problem then was - we were known as RTS designers. Yep, at Iron Lore, Brian Sullivan and myself only had experience on RTS and publishers weren't sure we could manage to make a successful ARPG. Now you're telling me I can't make a strategy game and have to stick with ARPG?! Haha, not sure I want to know what you'd say then if we told you what else we were working on...

Anyway, sorry no GD2 yet but hope that answers some of your questions. Don't worry, we're not about to go bankrupt anytime in the foreseeable future. We'll get back to GD before too long.

-Medierra

https://steamcommunity.com/app/219990/discussions/0/2259062250949121088/?tscn=1590379155"
Astasia May 5, 2022 @ 7:26am 
Just to be clear for those that haven't clicked the link, that quote is from two years ago, rumors are GD2 (or the next ARPG) is already under development at this point. What stage that is is another question, planning and drawing out concept is "under development." They have made it known multiple teams are working on multiple projects at Crate these days. I wouldn't expect any announcement and details to show up until 2023 or 2024 though at the earliest.

I would have preferred another DLC or two adding more masteries, there were a lot of exciting ideas the devs posted in EA that never made it into the game, but I can see why they are moving on. My hope is their next entry has more character customization and better armor and animations, along the lines of like Lost Ark but obviously not expecting that art style.
Originally posted by Astasia:
Just to be clear for those that haven't clicked the link, that quote is from two years ago, rumors are GD2 (or the next ARPG) is already under development at this point. What stage that is is another question, planning and drawing out concept is "under development." They have made it known multiple teams are working on multiple projects at Crate these days. I wouldn't expect any announcement and details to show up until 2023 or 2024 though at the earliest.

I would have preferred another DLC or two adding more masteries, there were a lot of exciting ideas the devs posted in EA that never made it into the game, but I can see why they are moving on. My hope is their next entry has more character customization and better armor and animations, along the lines of like Lost Ark but obviously not expecting that art style.

And we know exactly what those projects are - Farthest Frontier, their town building game due to go into early access some time this year; an RTS game which will be set on Cairn in a pre-GD era and also a horror survival game plus they're working on a new generation of the GD game engine though what game they plan to use it for we don't know. Given that the team is only 13-15 people I don't think there's much time left over for making a GD2. We do know they have possible storylines they could pursue in the future, but when that future may happen is anyone's guess.

And Medierra had this to say a couple of years ago

https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/grim-dawn-future/94517/31
Angel666 May 5, 2022 @ 8:11am 
To many games to much competition and not enough time money to go around.

Was there not average of 15 games a day released on steam last year or something.

You need something special to stand out make money these days.

But grimdawn has good reputation and I'm sure he would sell more games thanks to that.

As long as he does not sell out or go cyber punk battlefield way and release to early a unfinished game to destroy your good or OK reputation.
Astasia May 5, 2022 @ 8:57am 
Originally posted by MedeaFleecestealer:
plus they're working on a new generation of the GD game engine

Thanks, I thought they were earlier than that but if they are already working on the engine that's good news.
neophus May 6, 2022 @ 3:49am 
Totally agree ! when I see the poor quality content about what they are doing with Titan Quest, Grim dawn could continue developing new content and much better. But it's true that it would include balancing again so it's wouldn't be easy.

O maybe focus on a new content based only on end game which is what poeple reproach sometimes about the game.

But sincerly I don't think that they will create something new with Grim Dawn. A shame (including myself, would be the first one paying for something new !) but realistic.
Last edited by neophus; May 6, 2022 @ 3:51am
powbam May 6, 2022 @ 3:57am 
Originally posted by neophus:
Totally agree ! when I see the poor quality content about what they are doing with Titan Quest, Grim dawn could continue developing new content and much better. But it's true that it would include balancing again so it's wouldn't be easy.

O maybe focus on a new content based only on end game which is what poeple reproach sometimes about the game.

But sincerly I don't think that they will create something new with Grim Dawn. A shame (including myself, would be the first one paying for something new !) but realistic.

Crate Entertainment does not own or have any rights to Titan Quest. TQ is owned by THQ Nordic.
Enfild May 6, 2022 @ 7:01am 
Sure, they make one. Even 2, or 3 expansions. Just after people learn to use search function.
Gilver Redgrave May 6, 2022 @ 8:58am 
Kinda wasted potential not to create more tho.

The Map is Huge and.....empty. The places we visit compared with how much of the map isnt used for anything at all is kinda dump. There is so much room for new regions.

Also people are asking for god knows how long to implement some sort of Ice focused class because the current Ice build are lackluster compared to the other classes you can play. So making Ice skills while not bothering creating viable Ice builds is also a wasted effort.

In short i believe its a bad idea creating something "new" while the old game does look like its not even finished yet. In the end this will result in Titan Quest 2.0 where the developer realizes he has plenty of room in his old game and creates content for it 10 years later.
Originally posted by Gilver Redgrave:
Kinda wasted potential not to create more tho.

The Map is Huge and.....empty. The places we visit compared with how much of the map isnt used for anything at all is kinda dump. There is so much room for new regions.

Also people are asking for god knows how long to implement some sort of Ice focused class because the current Ice build are lackluster compared to the other classes you can play. So making Ice skills while not bothering creating viable Ice builds is also a wasted effort.

In short i believe its a bad idea creating something "new" while the old game does look like its not even finished yet. In the end this will result in Titan Quest 2.0 where the developer realizes he has plenty of room in his old game and creates content for it 10 years later.

Well, Crate never promised to wrap all loose ends as far as the story goes. But the game is content complete as far as they're concerned. Adding other masteries and expansions (Crate have stated that we would only get new masteries with a new expansion) would be difficult not only balance-wise, but bloat the game in the same way that TQ is now bloated with 3 extra expansions. That isn't something they want.
powbam May 6, 2022 @ 10:28am 
Originally posted by Gilver Redgrave:
In the end this will result in Titan Quest 2.0 where the developer realizes he has plenty of room in his old game and creates content for it 10 years later.
This is how I know you don't know TQs history and who it's current owners are, who aren't the original owners. Or devs.
Zantai  [developer] May 6, 2022 @ 11:08am 
We could milk it, sure, squeeze out content til the quality drops and the game becomes a bloated monstrosity and impossible to balance.

Or...we hedge our bets as a company and branch out, so our continued existence as a business (and consequently our livelihoods) is not based entirely upon the success or failure of a single franchise.

Regardless of how you personally feel about the games we are making next, these are genres and gameplay that we find interesting and enjoyable, and if we can't make the stuff we love to play, why are we even bothering to remain independent?

Returning to ARPGs seems inevitable, it is a genre that's very dear to us, but frankly I'd rather return to them with a clean slate that only a sequel can offer than to try to force more systems and masteries and content into a game that already feels great as is.

Maybe we are leaving money on the table in the process, but I feel confident in the direction we are taking for the longterm, so we can continue to deliver you (hopefully) great games for years to come.

___

As for ice mastery, wut? There's 2 masteries heavy on cold skills, nevermind conversions on other mastery skills and skills from gear/components. Plenty of top-tier ways to play cold. Not to mention Ice is my favorite element in games, so I find it disingenuous to say cold is lackluster in GD.
Last edited by Zantai; May 6, 2022 @ 11:36am
solaris32 May 6, 2022 @ 1:39pm 
You guys want more masteries? Download the mod "Dawn of Masteries".
< >
Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: May 5, 2022 @ 4:53am
Posts: 14