Piercing Damage.

[Blinkybubs]

Is Piercing Damage the same as Physical Damage or at least considered as Physical Damage by the game?

[Aw Shucks]

It is a separate damage type with its own attendant bonuses. Physical bonuses on gear will not boost Piercing damage, and reduction of Physical resistance will not benefit Piercing damage.

Piercing can be obtained from Physical via conversion, though Physical to Pierce conversion is handled with the Armor Piercing stat and that's a bit of an odd duck in the conversions with how it gets handled.

[Blinkybubs]

I'm trying to figure out what Concussive Bomb does to Canister Bomb, can anybody elaborate?

[Aw Shucks]

Originally posted by Blinkybubs:

I'm trying to figure out what Concussive Bomb does to Canister Bomb, can anybody elaborate?

Converts the piercing damage done by the Canister Bomb into lightning damage and adds stun duration. Concussive Bomb scales over 3 ranks for some reason, with the first rank converting 33 percent of the Piercing damage on the skill to Lightning, the second 66 percent and the third 100 percent. The stun chance also scales up over 3 ranks.

I don't know why it has 3 ranks, though. I'm not sure why you'd want to ever only invest one or two points.

[Blinkybubs]

That is what I was thinking but there is no Physical Damage, only Piercing so I wasn't sure what it was saying.

[Aw Shucks]

Originally posted by Blinkybubs:

That is what I was thinking but there is no Physical Damage, only Piercing so I wasn't sure what it was saying.

There is Physical damage on the Improved Casing modifier for Canister Bomb (Internal Trauma is Physical's DoT form) but the transmuter goes after Piercing, which is a bit more useful because converting away from Piercing in other ways usually requires very specific gear pieces (I think the Stormserpent epic set does that, Piercing to Lightning - or is it the other way around?). There is an abundance of ways to convert Physical away, the other damage types are not usually as expedient to convert.

[Takeda]

Originally posted by Blinkybubs:

That is what I was thinking but there is no Physical Damage, only Piercing so I wasn't sure what it was saying.

I think the concept of physical damage was imagined as as the concussive damage delivered by a hammer (with internal trauma being aligned with bruising and internal damage).

Pierce is imagined as the pointy stabby/slashy physical damage of a stiletto or sword - the odd thing is that getting stabbed DOES NOT lead to bleeding.

I believe at one point chaos was the DoT of aether .. or the other way round. I like they're separate damage types, but I also feel like GD is breaking its own rules by not providing them with their own DoTs. I could over look this in the spirit of diversity (I love anything that lends itself to choice and allows you to diverge from metas) but but but:

bleed damage is so obviously the DoT of pierce damage and yet the devs have left them unrelated and kind of orphaned from what is an otherwise established format of "damage and DoT".

That's both counter-intuitive and confusing

Grim Dawn is an amazing game with some jarring hiccups.

I also always felt that bow Amazons in D2 were short changed in that they didn't have magical quivers. You could dual wield, or have a shield - in short, every class with two hands, but using a one handed weapon could have a "secondary" item that gave more bonuses - unless you had a bow. Then you had to both a limitation on ammunition (huh?) and no offhand bonuses.

I just realised ARPGs hate bow people .. Meh! I need a lie down.

[Aw Shucks]

Originally posted by Takeda:

Originally posted by Blinkybubs:

That is what I was thinking but there is no Physical Damage, only Piercing so I wasn't sure what it was saying.

I think the concept of physical damage was imagined as as the concussive damage delivered by a hammer (with internal trauma being aligned with bruising and internal damage).

Pierce is imagined as the pointy stabby/slashy physical damage of a stiletto or sword - the odd thing is that getting stabbed DOES NOT lead to bleeding.

I believe at one point chaos was the DoT of aether .. or the other way round. I like they're separate damage types, but I also feel like GD is breaking its own rules by not providing them with their own DoTs. I could over look this in the spirit of diversity (I love anything that lends itself to choice and allows you to diverge from metas) but but but:

bleed damage is so obviously the DoT of pierce damage and yet the devs have left them unrelated and kind of orphaned from what is an otherwise established format of "damage and DoT".

That's both counter-intuitive and confusing

Grim Dawn is an amazing game with some jarring hiccups.

I also always felt that bow Amazons in D2 were short changed in that they didn't have magical quivers. You could dual wield, or have a shield - in short, every class with two hands, but using a one handed weapon could have a "secondary" item that gave more bonuses - unless you had a bow. Then you had to both a limitation on ammunition (huh?) and no offhand bonuses.

I just realised ARPGs hate bow people .. Meh! I need a lie down.

You could conceptually tie Aether and Chaos together pretty easily in that Aether represents raw, unfettered "life force" energy (note that things like Aetherial Watchers manifest as this glowing, living orb of 'energy') and Chaos represents the entropic decay of that very energy. Aether energy hurts things the same way overloading an electrical circuit makes it explode into flames, and Chaos just saps away the energy inside that current until it reaches a zero energy state.

EDIT: Wait, right, Vitality damage is a thing too. I forget what they said that was supposed to be conceptually.

I actually never understood why Pierce/Bleed aren't tied together. It would solve a LOT of issues with Bleed damage on skills being impossible to convert away for better utility. Might be something more technical involved. Barring that you could dispense with Piercing and IT, roll Phys and Bleed together and to approximate the "armor piercing" effect add a certain degree of armor negation to certain weapon types. Suppose it's a bit late for that now.

[DirtyMick]

So piercing damage is indeed just a damage type right? It doesnt actually ignore any armor or anything? It works the same as any other damage type? (Not including dots of course)

[Aw Shucks]

Originally posted by Turret Syndrome:

So piercing damage is indeed just a damage type right? It doesnt actually ignore any armor or anything? It works the same as any other damage type? (Not including dots of course)

It does ignore armor because the only damage type that checks Armor Rating is Physical I think. Piercing only checks Piercing Resistance (and damage absorption if it is applicable)

Originally posted by Takeda:

I also always felt that bow Amazons in D2 were short changed in that they didn't have magical quivers. You could dual wield, or have a shield - in short, every class with two hands, but using a one handed weapon could have a "secondary" item that gave more bonuses - unless you had a bow. Then you had to both a limitation on ammunition (huh?) and no offhand bonuses.

I just realised ARPGs hate bow people .. Meh! I need a lie down.

Bowazons were still monstrously strong, to the point where you were WAY more likely to see a Burizazon or such than a Javazon (and Spearazons were basically never competitive because anything you could do with a spear you could do with a javelin). Guided Arrow/Multiple Shot spamming 'zons were the absolute bane of any kind of PvP environment in D2 unless you had a Necro around to Iron Maiden her to death.

[Blinkybubs]

Sooo...since it is a Damage Conversion is there any further reason to invest in High Impact and/or Shattering Blast due to the damage type...other than the Crit on the latter? I'm thinking no but could someone elaborate please? Ignoring the token Retalliation or Internal Trauma spike...

[Aw Shucks]

Originally posted by Blinkybubs:

Sooo...since it is a Damage Conversion is there any further reason to invest in High Impact and/or Shattering Blast due to the damage type...other than the Crit on the latter? I'm thinking no but could someone elaborate please? Ignoring the token Retalliation or Internal Trauma spike...

I think modifiers to skills increase the damage before conversion, making your ending damage result higher. That said the High Impact and Shattering Blast modifiers add things like flat damage on the skill, crit damage bonus and retaliation damage added to the damage of the skill, which are variably useful depending on your build. Though those modifiers are for Grenado and not Canister Bomb, and will not affect Canister Bomb. Perfectly possible to have both, though. I have a Shieldbreaker that does that.

[Blinkybubs]

Ahh I see, so skill points can add modifiers to a skill before conversion, effect the result of the skill after the coversion but modifiers from other sources do not affect it until after the conversion. Did I get that right?

[Aw Shucks]

Originally posted by Blinkybubs:

Ahh I see, so skill points can add modifiers to a skill before conversion, effect the result of the skill after the coversion but modifiers from other sources do not affect it until after the conversion. Did I get that right?

I think that's the case from what I've read so far but watch someone come in and correct me.

[Blinkybubs]

Got pretty confused in this thread, was actually asking about Grenado. Would delete it if I could. Not sure how I got confused...Please delete thread.

[Takeda]

Originally posted by Blinkybubs:

Got pretty confused in this thread, was actually asking about Grenado. Would delete it if I could. Not sure how I got confused...Please delete thread.

I think there's still stuff to takeaway from this even if it's not helped you personally - just having your initial question could help someone searching the discussions too :)

Having said that - we'll see if we can summarise effectively:

So ... Canister Bomb does both Pierce and Fire damage (with Burn damage too), with Improved Casing adding more Damage Over Time from Internal Trauma, and bonuses to the base damage too.

I think your initial question is reasonable in that if Concussive doesn't cite Physical damage, then what is Concussive transmuting? I did a little digging and found this:

Internal Trauma is converted to Electrocute (found in Improved Casing).

It would be easier to write that in English in the tooltip, but the mechanic is that Internal Trauma is Physical damage applied over time, just as Electrocute is Lightening damage applied over time - the game therefore reports the actual mechanic and not a less confusing description :)

You also referenced Grenado too - for me I'd take Grenado and some Flashbang as you'd acquire good boss and crowd damage - better performing than Canister Bomb.

Whether you take the Skyfire modifier would really depend on what damage conversion your gear is doing.

Clear as mud eh :D