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IMO ABB's main perk is not the base skill, but Lethal Assault. It adds a ton of OA and flat damage. I'm not sure how important it is for a pierce Blademaster though, since the default flat damage is cold and acid.
You cannot use the weapon procs off of an ABB attack. It is not considered a default attack. On that point, the 3rd hit of Cadence won't proc weapon skills either.
I guess the short version is, that if I'm ok for OA then ABB is actually damaging my DPS same as Cadence would.
The more I learn the more i realise I don't know.
it only uses the offhand for scaling, so it's a pretty poor dps skill for a dualwield build. much better suited for a 2H build (especially if you have a weapon with cooldown reduction such as soulrend or nightshade reach).
the main use of ABB in a dualwield build is the modifier skill (lethal assault) that gives you a 4s buff that adds a ton of acid & cold flat (==weapon) damage and a nice chunk of offensive ability. ABB can be used as the left click for convenience, but in practice it's probably enough to leave it at 1 point, max out lethal assault and only use it every 3-4 seconds to keep the buff up.
most of the damage in a DW build will come from auto attacks since you can attack crazy fast (close to 4 swings per second), so the ABB swing only occupies ~ 1 in 7 or 8 attacks even if you use it as the left click and trigger it every time it's off cooldown. all the other swings in between will be normal auto attacks (or weapon pool skills that replace autoswings)
the important thing to know about those weapon pool skills (or "Passively Activated Weapon Skills" as they are called in the text you pasted) is that most of them use both weapons automatically - unlike the generic auto attack that only has a 50% chance to swing both weapons (the other half of the attacks use only main or only offhand weapon).
i think zolhans technique is an exception - afaik it only uses the mainhand weapon.
whirling death is a little weak as a single target skill (barely breaks even with the average ~75% MH+OH damage of normal auto attacks at high skill ranks), but it basically hits everything around you, so it's understandable that its performance as single target skill is underwhelming.
since you mentioned soldier skills, i guess this is about a blademaster. and since you mentioned pierce heavy, you should probably use cadence (+ deadly momentum) as your default attack and use swords with high armor piercing combined with blades of nadaan constellation (doubles armor piercing). the dermapteran slicers (MI sword dropping off the insects near homestead) is a pretty decent weapon for a pierce BM. they have a native armor piercing value of 50% and together with the constellation, all physical damage is converted to pierce damage.
don't know if ABB is really worth the points in a pierce build. you don't get much out of the flat acid & cold damage from lethal assault. the OA would still be useful, though.
As for the wps skills, you got it right. Once you reach 100% total chance of activation, your autoattacks will be completely replaced, and more than 100% means they'll just have less chance to activate individually. Which is bad, because some of them are totally better than others.
As for their utility, Soldier's Markovian Advantage is stronger than Zolhan's Technique (which hits only with the main hand, being crap for a dualwielder) and all Nightblade skills other than Execution (and maybe Amarasta's Quick Cut if your OA is high).
I'm actually trying to optimise a Nightblade Occultist and a Nightblade Necro through these discussions (I type the classes cos when I read class type autopsies I can never remember what classes constitute what GD hybrid name).
And thank you Azunai I was blissfully unaware that the standard proc to use both weapons on vanilla strikes was only 50% or that the procs force a twin blade attack.
I think in future builds ABB will be on a key much like Pneumatic Burst to act as a buff - that seems a better use of it. If I wasn't using Vicious Spikes on weapons I'd be looking at Beronath's as the default attack I guess.
So for clarity, the procs replace the vanilla attack as opposed to sitting on top of it? Assuming the worst of Whirling Death, do my procs remain processional?
I use a five attack segment as my consideration because of the 20% activation - so for every five attacks do I get:
vanilla / vanilla / Belgothian / Am's Quick Cut / Execute .. repeat? (or something similar to this)
That being the case I'd skip WD and let gear based Ring of Steel procs take up the slack instead for dealing with massed minions.
Yup, you got it right. Of course it's still chance based, so it could happen that you get 5 vanilla attacks or 5 Executions in a row. Just don't go over 100% wps activation chance, because no matter the build, you want to get as many Executions as you can.
I feel like Nightblade combat is more pointy roulette than reliable DPS but at least I understand it better now.
Edit: I didn't quite get around to mentioning that I think some misunderstandings have been created. :x
Probably the issue is the lack of my comprehension leads to me not being able to ask a coherant question :)
OK so I had a lot of questions about why a thing like Cadence doesn't work well with Nightblades, but now know that it's because the Cadence third strike replaces the chance for a proc to occur.
So if the loss of procs is damaging to my overall DPS despite the benefits gained from Cadence, then what can I deduce about optimising how I use procs to best advantage.
I looked at ABB as a potential alternative knowing that some skills or item granted effects which perform like skills can work well with procs. Beranoth's Shard ability or Savagery being good examples.
Within this I also looked at Bone Harvest as a "mouse 1" attack on my Nightblade Necro as a way of squeezing more damage into the attack rotations.
Taking Bone Harvest out of sequence here, I like it. I totally appreciate that it may be entirely hairbrained as it most likely detracts from my DPS but I don't want every Nightblade I play to play the same. Pierce items rinse and repeat.
I guess all this speculation was all born of my Nightblade Shaman rocking the same DPS as my primary Nightblade but being 15 levels and several devotions behind him. Savagery was clearly the difference which made me want to explore what I could do beyond the vanilla "mouse 1" auto attack.
GD's explanation of procs reads like were you to achieve 5 of them at 20% each, they would supplant the vanilla auto attack. Logic suggests the only way this works is if they run in a sequence.
Player answers suggest otherwise - that each one attack rolls a 20% on each proc to see if it activates (presumably stopping the check when a proc comes back as positive) which leads to a potential extreme situation of all 5 attacks being Execution or no procs at all. But that's not how the GD explanation reads.
I'm perfectly happy with the imperfection of trying to explain an abstract combat process to people who don't know, or even have never played the game. However it works is how it works, I'd just like to be clear on what it is doing - as opposed to guessing.
If there are good procs and bad procs, then it suggests that some skills shouldn't be taken at all as they'd actually dilute the collective DPS bringing down the average damage over a sustained period of time. Presumably there are instances where a skill can have a 20% chance to activate but without more points does less damage than an auto attack. That being the case, simply putting a point in Anatomy of Murder for the 2% cunning would benefit the current array of procs and the standard damage form and thus be a better choice.
That becomes a serious consideration if you have Ring of Steel activating off gear and therefore not needing Whirling Death for example.
So ....
How do we tell what's what qualifies as a proc inducing default attack?
How does GD queue up the procs in the fictitious scenario (for me) that you have five desirable skills with 20% chance to activate each?
Past this point I don't really know what to ask - as I understand better it provides me room to ask more, better or different questions.
Examples:
- With no WPS while dual wielding, you roll 1-100 and on 1-25 you attack with your main hand weapon, on 26-50 you attack with your off hand weapon, and on 51-100 you attack with both weapons.
-With only Execution (20%) while dual wielding, you roll 1-100 and on 1-15 you attack with you main hand weapon, on 16-30 you attack with your off hand weapon, on 31-80 you attack with both weapons, and on 81-100 you use Execution.
-With Reaping Strike and Necrotic Edge (25% each) while dual wielding, you roll 1-100 and on 1-50 you make a regular attack with both weapons, on 51-75 you use Reaping Strike, and on 76-100 you use Necrotic Edge. Because you have a total of 50% chance to use a WPS you no longer have a chance to make a regular attack with just one weapon (though a WPS that only uses one weapon will still only use one weapon).
The only time one WPS really "blocks" another is if you have over 100% total chance to activate among them, in which case the chance to activate for all of them are reduced to bring the total to 100%. With Markovian's (25%) and all 4 Nightblade WPS (20%), the 25% chance Markovian will still activate more often than the 20% chance WPS... but in effect your least desirable WPS is sapping frequency of activation from your better WPS. A WPS with a slow attack animation also kind of "blocks" the others since of course you have to wait until it is finished to make the next attack. I'm not sure if that's still a problem with any WPS but Belgothian's Shears used to be a DPS loss in some cases when it had a slower animation.
Your Trickster was doing a ton of damage because Savagery's base weapon damage interacts multiplicatively with WPS. So if you do 150% weapon damage with a fully charge Savagery and 250% weapon damage with Execution, an Execution WPS from Savagery will do 1.5*2.5 = 375% weapon damage. The flat damage of each one... does something, I forget what. Just keep in mind that high weapon damage on a Default Attack Replacer (Savagery, Fire Strike, Beronath's Shard, etc. but not really Cadence as you said) = ass kicking.
Some skills that have a cooldown (and Cadence) kind of act like Default Attack Replacers in that in between the uses of the actual skill you can keep holding down that button and you'll make default attacks as if you had the normal attack on that key instead of ABB or whatever. They don't have any interaction with the WPS, though, aside from activated-on-hit buffs like Lethal Assault or Deadly Momentum of course applying to the WPS like they would to any other attack.
It's usually specified in the skill's information. From classes, you can get Savagery (Shaman), Fire Strike (Demolitionist) and Cadence (Soldier). You can also get some other modifiers from gear (Belgothian set, Runebinder set, Mistborn Talisman and Heart of Theodin's) and one from a component (Shard of Beronath). Between these, the only anomaly with wps abilities is Cadence's third strike, as it cannot activate them.
This said, you got the basics right, but ya, I guess you're still confused on the deepest mechanic. I could try to explain, but I'll be honest... you want a good in-depth explanation of something, it comes from either KG or Powbam