What's up with War Cry?

[Evilnapkin]

I use it to taunt enemies, it seems like half the time the powerful enemies I would *really* like it to work on (since weaker enemies die too fast to matter) ignore it half the time, going for my coop dps partner instead. I'm pure specced as tank and starting to feel pretty useless. What's up with the threat/aggro system in this game?

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

increase your dmg aside from spamming Judgement and War Cry

a way to up your dmg would be via resist reducts, Oathkeeper easily supports phys and bleed reducts which just happen to be some of the primary dmg dealers in Soldier.
Others have already explained that "tanking" traditional mmo style isn't really a thing in GD because of how wildly diff threat works -hells as Pet Lord conjuror you can get aggro just from a single debuff. This means dps, aside from debuffing will be the most reliable source of aggro you can boost.

What you might not have know is War Cry didn't always taunt, it was changed from adding a "fear" effect, to a taunt, because for something like a retaliation, or just most aoe dealers, it became annoying mobs scattered when you used it. So it was changed to a "taunt" to make them stay put, but not to be a main aggro builder in the mmo style of tanking.

Assuming you're using a shield, Forcewave wont really help you much, what you can do is stack Cadence with wps (markovian, zolhan, shattering smash & smite) or use blade arc spam instead with no wps.
Then (along with Guardian of Empyrion Celestial presence debuff) having a resist reduction devotion, Assassin's Mark for Phys/trauma, or Rend for bleed/blade arc. Will bost your dmg, and debuffing, where your agro can steadily rise to where you might be able to "tank" again.
Be aware tho, no matter how much of it your stack, if your partner out performs you, something like a crazy AAR build, Piercing infiltrator, or an Occultist debuffer you will still very easily be able to lose threat/"not be tanking" because your overall threat is just being out done by what they do.
But adding the above mentioned Cadence or Blade Arc to your WC and Judgment +RR debuff should give you a fair chance of keeping up
Not exactly sure which of them causes more threat, or if it's just DoTs in combination with crits, but blade arc might be worth a try, (not sure about its threat with a 1hander tho)

if you want someone to give you direct suggestions on your build as always upload your toon to https://www.grimtools.com/calc/ (top left arrow), then use the share button and post the link so people can see your character

[Evilnapkin]

Here's my build: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/pZrgva5N

[andrew.thiele]

Originally posted by Evilnapkin:

Here's my build: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/pZrgva5N

Ignoring the extremely odd skill distribution choices and resistances, why did you take the transmutator for War Cry? While it's 10 flat reduced resistances is "okay" if your friend has zero sources of flat RR himself, the Terrify targets is doing the opposite of drawing enemies towards you.

[Evilnapkin]

I took it for the reduced resistances, terrify is an annoying af side effect.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by Evilnapkin:

Here's my build: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/pZrgva5N

okay, that's a little messy to be frank. You are overstacking menhirs will and resilience, this is waste of points. Veterancy you like don't need that high when you are Physique dumping anyway
seems like you are maybe misunderstanding what Constituion does given your stack of Veterancy and using of bristley fur like there is no tomorrow (hint, it's a shtty component only used for the first 20lvls or so)
0 judgement, and nothing that actually deals dmg, guessing you rely on auto attack and WC. Likewise devotions are not really superb, lizard is wasted again, the health is not that much compared to other similar mitigation devotions for 3pts
moment

[Evilnapkin]

The point of my build was to be the guy the enemies attack, even if terrify sometimes makes them run away for a bit the fact that I taunted them should make them come back and attack me. Is what I thought. Everything about my build is surviving groups so my coop partner (brother) can attack with impunity, but (especially in AoM) enemies seem to be ignoring my taunt more and more as we level up. Which is why I'm looking into redoing my build. I don't have another stat point reallocation potion though, so my stacked physique is going to stick for a while.

He's a caster/necro. Summons skeletons and casts an ice rain skill, I think it's called Skyshard. When we played WoW together that's how we rolled, him as dps me as damage soaker, so we were basically hoping to carry it over here once I saw the "Taunt" ability (and then it doesn't work like an MMO taunt -_-).

[Cyseal]

Well in every other game, a taunt does exactly that. Again, like in Path of Exile, Diablo 3 and Wolcen to say a few. But sadly, it isn't useful in Grim Dawn for that purpose.

I was excited about that skill when I first started playing with a friend, who loves to make glass cannons. Thought there would be awesome synergy and we could truly make what we wanted, but nah. Just focus on doing more damage than him AND being more tanky than him and you're fine.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

dumping everything in physique is fine, good even for basic builds and starter characters learning the ropes, it gives "everything a growing boy needs", so no worries about that, keep dumping all in physique, you only need cunning for certain weapons and spirit for jewlery
a note, you don't have a relic, go craft 1, doesn't really matter what, even calamity(starter relic) would be helpful
you also don't have augments on your weapons or rings+neck, these are like bonuses like components, except you can have them at the same time as components, you get them from various reputation levels at Factions, starting at lvl 40 and reputation Honored, go visit faction merchants you are honored with and browse augemnts

a suggestion:
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/aZqkvA82
^i didn't bother fixing your resists. This is something you should start paying attention to with augments, components and gear ofc. you are enaring the level range where getting your resist up will be helpful
did swap some components, like scales, so take notice of that (you might not have the Whetstone but most things should be obtainable for you)
i went for the blade arc approach, tbh not really sure how it's gonna be with a 1hander, but just couldnt' find the points for proper cadence and wps with everything else desired to 1pt.

not capping something is not necessarily bad, it can often be beneficial to 1pt multiple skills over capping a single, And ofc especially capping (or overcapping) useless skills is always more of a waste than 1pointing others.
Menhirs will and resillience are procs, and they are not main skills, so you should never dump really much into it. Likewise veterancy is only used to boost characters that dont use physique so they can wear armor and put everything in ex cunning. And ofc, don't focus on constitution, at all.

I gave you both blitz and vire because you can use blitz to aoe charge into a group (nice initial form of aggro), then you can use Vire to move around, either out of ground ji*z or charge an enemy moving to your brother or just use it for an extra attack if you feel like it

if you are using a shield, Oveguard will help you to soak things, learn to use it. Likewise Ascension both boost your dmg a little but will also soak some dmg.

Since you are not dealing retal dmg much, (and i don't really know how it works with threat), i'll suggest you try blade arch spam, attatch Rend devotion to it and just see how it works if you spam that sucker. Might possibly be better to switch to cadence with wps, unsure, but you need "something" to increase your dmg, and your gear doesn't really scream retal anyway

and even if you don't use this build idea, hopefully it can be a little service to give you some ideas about how to go, or not go, about things, instead of dumping all points in "main" skills you don't actually main/use -rarely is it good to cap or overcap proc skills you can't really rely on, you want "active" skills or constant passives mostly

[Evilnapkin]

Yeah I'm not expecting to do a lot of damage with a onehander, I went shield build because again I was expecting tank but if that isn't working I should probably switch to a 2hander eh? Just need to find a good one first.

To be clear though I prefer sword and board characters.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

shield builds can work really well with oathkeeper, you can/will still likely be out dps'd by a dual wielder or 2hand /"dps build", and thus out aggroed, depending what you have/use and what they do
Shield also works especially well with retaliation build, and Warlord is like one of the best retalion classes there are. I just don't know how it's gonan work threat wise, A i don't know if retal itself causes threat, but B, more so if you don't gain threat, enemies wont hit you and thus retal dmg be wasted. But retaliation could still be an option, and it's about the easiest build to make very very tanky, -and again works easily with Warlord.

I did a bleed build once, so i know it can work threatwise, but it was a Witchblade, so i had the benefit of also using Curse+Pox(big aggro skills too), but more so i ofc used a 2hander for blade arc spam, which might have been the/a important main difference from a "tank" build using shield
You can still make a 2hand wielder pretty tanky. Yes you lose the shield, but Soldier still has enough passives, and gear can boost enough that you ofc can "tank" stuff with 2hander -otherwise 2hander builds could never get through the main game alone if they couldnt' be made to soak enough dmg to survive ;)

[Evilnapkin]

Thanks, plugging in your build now to try. How does retaliation work? Is it a passive ability everyone has by default? I'm not seeing which skill would activate it otherwise.

[Takeda]

Originally posted by Evilnapkin:

Yeah I'm not expecting to do a lot of damage with a onehander, I went shield build because again I was expecting tank but if that isn't working I should probably switch to a 2hander eh? Just need to find a good one first.

To be clear though I prefer sword and board characters.

Here's my build to date: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/M2gjvGON

I accept my levels are greater but with the exception of my necklace, my gear is definitely around your level. Max hit to date from retaliation is 111309.

Assuming you're struggling to find decent kit the Perdition set would work fine, just use the Dreeg transmuters on the melee and guardian skills. Respec later of course when you find more appropriate kit.

Your brother has access to both Mirror of Ero' in Arcanist and Mark of Torment in Necro, both of which will let him stand still in front of a boss while you charge in and seek to gain aggro. If he takes to using the pet direction skill then he can order in pets behind you and pick off ranged with the sky shard.

Once you sort your coordination, his deathbreaker skills will save him when aggro goes awry, which should lead to you both playing as you wish to.

[Evilnapkin]

gNuff I have a question about the devotions. I put a point into Crossroads to get access to Ghoul, but then where did you go from there? All the other signs you put points into seem to be inaccessible to me.

[Norboth]

Hi, I have tryed to bring a little sense to your devotions.

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/dVbgDkYZ

gnuff seams to handle the rest well ;)

[Takeda]

Originally posted by Evilnapkin:

gNuff I have a question about the devotions. I put a point into Crossroads to get access to Ghoul, but then where did you go from there? All the other signs you put points into seem to be inaccessible to me.

Quick note on devotions, cos this is something most of us run into early on:

! point in the red node on Crossroads opens Ghoul - but then Ghoul provides 3 points of red on its own, so you can take back that initial red point in Crossroads as Ghoul is now "self sustaining".

There's a lot of devotion setups that require that mindset, so you build as far as you can, then claim back points before finishing your build.