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I was being serious, in a RPG point of view. Bow and Arrow is just a weapon I feel comfortable and cool with.
Yes I can use a Rifle or Crossbow...But Bow and Arrow feels more like my kind of Role Play
Does not fit the devs' vision of the game in the same way that wands/staves don't. Plus it needs its own animation set for both male and female.
Zantai post from 2017:
"Bows aren't happening because they will require their own custom animation set for Male and Female, so really 2 animation sets. That is a crap-ton of work for no actual gameplay gain beyond aesthetic. For reference, we have one animator on staff, and we already end up outsourcing at times so he doesn't shrivel up and die under the constant demand of new monsters/skills/equipment/environment assets."
https://store.steampowered.com/app/475150/Titan_Quest_Anniversary_Edition/
+ 1 for bows and arrows
Look guys, I am not against this idea but this is really picky, we already have bunch of guns and wahtnot to use, if bow and arrow is gonan be added then someone will ask for soemthing else since the ywill start doing this trend, it will be hell for developers and will ruin possibly time for next huge DLC release.
Using a bow requires different character animations (xbow and rifle share the same) and Crate... well Zantai at least, mentioned he didn't think it would be worth the resources to create new animations when from a gameplay perspective it isn't adding anything new or different to what an xbow or rifle already offers.
Of course that doesn't mean they can't do it, just that the incentive doesn't seem to be there. I kind of agree on a personal level. Flooding the game with a full set of bows, including different item rarities and damage types, just so one can say "Look, I'm holding my xbow at a slightly different angle" seems like a lot of work for little gain.
That isn't to ♥♥♥♥ on people with favorite or preferred character types. Just saying from a man-hours vs. payoff perspective, there doesn't seem to be a strong argument. Now if there were NO ranged weapons at all in the game, that would be far less niche of a demand thus adding more weight to the payoff perspective.
I'm afraid I'm inclined to disagree with this. Given that we tolerate an awful lot of ...
"is this game better than XXXXXXXX?" type questions .. or ..
"I've gotten to lvl 20 but feel my soldier is weak" type statements ..
Why the assertion there's not much point in discussing whether or not there should be bows?
I fully appreciate that from a small development team's perspective the issues invlved with developing animation sets precludes the inclusion of bows in Grim Dawn as it stands ...
But I'm a paying customer and I would really like to see them included. I'm not stupid, I get it's not gonna happen now, but if I don't say something does this mean there won't be bows in a Grim Dawn 2?
My personal opinion is that crossbows are ugly (I'm guessing I'm not alone in this). I also find firearms to be a little incongruous in a world so depserately short of resources that bits of iron become a staple currency. In addition, there isn't a survival game on the planet where the bow isn't one of the very first evolutions of effective combat on a budget.
The lack of bows in this game is a genuine shortfall in terms of immersion, diversity, credibility and historical accuracy. (I cite historical accuracy on the principle of the inclusion of other historically credible weapons). Do I accept that Grim Dawn is a tour de force and a major achievement for a small development team, and that there had to be some compromises in order to get this amazing game to market? Well yes.
Do I think that we should then just ignore a major weapon set and that this should be perpetuated through every subsequent iteration of the game? Totally not.
Last salvo:
Titan Quest had bows.
I'm a massive fan of this game - just bought a full copy with Crucible and Ashes for a friend to get them playing too. I'll be right there when FG comes out too. But we don't get to skip the awkard conversation about something which is clearly missing just because it's inconvenient.
As for historical accuracy, it's a fantasy game loosely based on the Victorian era with some Lovecraft influence; any historial accuracy as far as the world of Cairn is concerned is up to the devs to make up as they go along. This is Cairn's history, not any other planet's.
Yes, Titan Quest has bows. It also has spears and staves, none of which Crate decided to include in GD. I assume that whatever animation/mechanic TQ had for bows was stripped out of the engine or altered early on because Asylum101 hasn't been able to bring TQ bows into the game for his Grimarillion mod and I'm not sure spears work that well.
As for bows in GD2, well that just seems like a backwards step Cairn technology wise. Why use a bow when you have a gun that does more damage and fires more rapidly? But who knows, maybe the devs will agree with you if/when they get around to making the game.
A lot of people like bows, I get it. I don't mind them myself, but I've never missed them in GD. Frankly I was more upset when TQ's rebirth fountain system was dropped. There was a big argument on the forum about it years ago, but the devs didn't change their minds. So I had to adapt to that fact. I suggest you do the same re bows and GD.
It's a tricky thing to argue about without sounding like you're just being angry or just captured in the thrall of some other negative emotion - and I'm also trying to not fall into the trap of reading your reply in a tone you didn't write it in too. So if we agree we're both being lovely a fluffy here .. I'll move forward a bit ..
Citing historical accuracy is valid in so much as the Grim Dawn weapons have a basis in reality - I'm not losing sight of Grim Dawn's fantastical nature.
Grim Dawn 2 with bows would not be a backwards step if we are all in agreement that the big stumbling block to the inclusion of bows was the massive logistical investment of getting them into the game when it was developed with limited resources. My mentioning Titan Quest was meant to highlight that bow animations are not an insurmountable hurdle - but equally I fully accept that TQ's bows may well be the reason that Zantai et all knew ahead of time how difficult their implementation would be in GD.
Beyond all this the lessons we learn from the likes of Blizzard is how important it is to listen to your customers and understand what they want in a game. As you say yourself "it has been said over and over .." well that suggests it should be considered in earnest.
Let's assume I'm right just for the sake of brevity in my post.
What then can we do to enable it? Would it be worth it for example for Crate to open the door to animation modders to provide the solution? I'd imagine that a lot of modders would be happy to do the heavy lifting for this if the reward were an NPC sporting their name and a free copy of the expansion it's included in, or a copy of GD2.
Could it be as simple as anyone can reskin their crossbow with a bow skin from the illusionist so in-game weapon balance is not disturbed?
All of our collective love of sword and sorcery (so the high speed bow-elf in Hawk the Slayer or Legolas in LoTR to name but two) is what informs our love of Grim Dawn and the care and attention that's gone into it. Yes I accept that if the modding route is not a fix for Grim Dawn then I will continue to love and play Grim Dawn without bows.
But here's the rub: I'm articulate and reasonable, and if I don't make the arguement for the inclusion of bows in Grim Dawn 2 then I'm not contributing to the game I love via the community platform which is there for us to contribute in exactly that way.
I am then the problem and have only myself to blame if I don't speak up. I should add that taking the opportunity to make your arguement to the best of your ability is not the same as slavishly banging the same the old drum over a subject which can't be altered.
And thank you for taking the time to read and answer - I was unaware of Grimarillion so I'll have a read up and see if that helps me with the comprehension of magnitude of the task :)