Alternate Advancement / Paragon Leveling

[Nick]

Hi there, I'm just some casual recently addicted Grim Dawn. I recently got my first character to level 100, and I'm just sitting here grinding away getting no gear to drop, which is whatever, that's how it is, but what I was wondering is why is there no alternate advancement system in this game (beyond Devotion points)?

I mean, like a secondary leveling system to go beyond the max cap for alternate skills in a skill tree that is the same for all characters, very similar to Paragon leveling in Diablo 3. I miss AA's from Everquest 2 and Diablo 3's Paragon levels while I sit here and grind on in Grim Dawn. I just wish there was some kind of general advancement my character can make past whatever the max character level cap is.

I would also like it if this alternative advancement system was spread to all characters and that they were all the same, just like Diablo 3. If that's too much to ask for from the hardcore players, no problem, just make it centered for each character then, I can compromise.

I'm SURE someone in the past has suggested something like this, but it doesn't hurt to mention it again.

[Unicarn]

They don't want an infinite leveling system like the Paragon system. They want characters to have a point where they're "finished". It's an intentional design choice.

I personally agree with their choice.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Unicarn:

They don't want an infinite leveling system like the Paragon system. They want characters to have a point where they're "finished". It's an intentional design choice.

I personally agree with their choice.

Alright, not something I really look forward to then. Hopefully in the future some creative modder can introduce their own version of what I'm looking for, if the developer won't. That or I'll eventually go back to my other casual games, like D3.

[Takeda]

If the point of what you seek is longevity, then the game has it. Rep grinding allows you to access if not advanced gear, then at least advanced augments. It also opens up the opportunity to face advanced bosses. The Crucible then allows you to take your chracter into an environment which will keep getting progressively more difficult.

Aside from that, there's the many character options - I've got a Nightblade Occultist because i want a crow to follow my chaos kissed melee madness .. then again I've got an Occultist Nightblade who stacks bleeding powers onto her own nasty version of turbo-Ebola. And that's just to scratch the surface.

How come you already feel like you've plateaued?

[Toasty]

If you can clear crucible 170 and all content then your character is finished. Consider that as your paragon levelling :)

[Anathema]

Originally posted by 「§NG」| Crismo - Nick:

Originally posted by Unicarn:

They don't want an infinite leveling system like the Paragon system. They want characters to have a point where they're "finished". It's an intentional design choice.

I personally agree with their choice.

Alright, not something I really look forward to then. Hopefully in the future some creative modder can introduce their own version of what I'm looking for, if the developer won't. That or I'll eventually go back to my other casual games, like D3.

This isn't a casual game so... there's your problem. Also the longevity is supposed to be through making new characters, not playing the same one forever.

[Nick]

The rep grinding is pretty simple, it would get extremely boring to have to do that over and over again for every character, I'm just not that into korean MMO's if you get my drift (not at the moment anyways). I've played through some of the Crucible, not all the way on all the difficulties but at the moment it's just a sad gear grind.

I like the idea of playing the same character forever, that's kind of what I like to do, so the fact that it just stops abruptly once you've got your gear is kind of annoying. The point was to have some fun while grinding for gear at the endgame because right now it's just plain boring.

[Finnvbot]

Originally posted by 「§NG」| Crismo - Nick:

I like the idea of playing the same character forever, that's kind of what I like to do, so the fact that it just stops abruptly once you've got your gear is kind of annoying. The point was to have some fun while grinding for gear at the endgame because right now it's just plain boring.

And this is why we have tons of games on the market. They cover different grounds, so to speak. If you want a more oldschool, alt-levelling madness, Grim Dawn is the way to go. If you want to grind the infinite escalator, D3 has got you covered. I could go on with more examples but the point is this: play all the games, don't just stick with one and expect it to do everything the way you want it to. Appreciate them for what they are and play whichever one scratches the itch better at that particular moment. Life's too long to do only one thing.

[Markiesje]

To each their own I guess.

What you describe is something that I would rather dislike - I like there to be an 'end' at some point, instead of being able to go on infinitely (which is still something that you could do, but ofcourse farming the same content over and over again will eventually get boring). An end - to me - grants satisfaction. I want to clear most content with a certain char and then with all the new aqcuired gear & loot I wanna do it all over again, but on a completely different character. To me, building new characters (specifically with newly aqcuired legendary items) and clearing the same content in different (creative) ways grants 'infinite' replayablity. Infinite leveling does not do that for me (it feels more like a chore than anything else), although I can see the appeal of what you describe to some extent ...

I don't think Crate will ever implement this kind of leveling, so I'd say just stick to D3 for these desires (or be hopeful that modders share your views). GD will probably always be about building and experimenting with different characters rather than an infinite leveling experience.

[StreamWhenGuy]

You don't even know what's coming with the new expansion people, yet claiming that "they don't want an infinite leveling". I mean... how the ƒuck can you know? This game desperately lacks of endgame. Rolling a new character and going through everything is amazing, yeah, and not boring at all

[Finnvbot]

And playing one character till the end of time isn't boring, right? Right?

Haven't we as a civilisation reached the point where we understand that different things appeal to different people? It's 2018. Some people like levelling multiple characters, some prefer seeing bigger numbers pop up for no apparent reason other than "progress".

[Enfild]

No, thanks, i more enjoy idea of bean able to actually finnish character. It is not an mmo, we dont need infinite grind bs.
Also, even if you are maxed, there still are some things to do.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Enfild:

No, thanks, i more enjoy idea of bean able to actually finnish character. It is not an mmo, we dont need infinite grind bs.
Also, even if you are maxed, there still are some things to do.

What the heck is wrong with adding more stuff to do at the endgame?

Maybe we do need some raids, get some co-op specialized missions, heck let's incorporate multiplayer raids, why not? Throw in some daily and weekly quests with special rewards. The same goes for the Crucible, add in objectives, quests, and challenges. Make a cow level, no, not the crucible, but an entire different thing.

What's wrong with wanting something more exciting at the endgame for my character? There's nothing wrong with that, I paid for the game just like you, and I can put in my two cents for what I think I want to see from Grim Dawn in the future.

[Finnvbot]

Originally posted by 「§NG」| Crismo - Nick:

What's wrong with wanting something more exciting at the endgame for my character? There's nothing wrong with that, I paid for the game just like you, and I can put in my two cents for what I think I want to see from Grim Dawn in the future.

That goes both ways. No one tells you to shut up or anything, they say they'd pass because they don't find it interesting. As for the online focus, it probably (99.9%) ain't gonna happen because the costs vastly exceeds the potential profit and it's a deliberate design choice to keep it a single-player-focused title with a co-op option. And, as I said in my previous posts (since apparently this can't be stressed enough), different games cover different niches. GD simply isn't targeted towards D3 audience.

[Nick]

"GD simply ain't targeted towards D3 audience."

Sure it is, this is pretty much a hybrid D3/PoE/TL2 game, to say that it's not targeted towards that audience is absurd. The genre is that audience.

I like games like these but this one is MISSING the "fun" ENDGAME point of the game. That's all.

I'm just hoping that the developer adds something for me to do at the ENDGAME portion of the game, you know, further the plot (that new shiny expansion coming out someday), add in quests, challenges, daily stuff, weekly stuff, pretty much anything to expand the current game when you've reached max level would be great.

[Finnvbot]

Within every artistic genre (gaming, music, you name it), you have subgenres. Sure, a lot of people who listen to black metal enjoy heavy metal but it's not always the case. This is because even though they are part of metal music, the aesthetic differences (sound, lyrics, appearance, themes, etc.) are pretty big. Yes, the audiences for each subgenre overlap to a degree. But, as clearly seen in this thread, we enjoy different things. GD is solo-focused, D3 is multiplayer-focused. This is a fundamental difference between the two, even though the goal of both games is to click on hordes of monsters till they crawl back to the hell they came from. The endgame you talk about is an MMO construct and D3 at its core was designed to merge two audiences together: D2 and WoW players. That's why it features ARPG gameplay with MMO-style endgame. GD is more suited towards people who prefer experimenting with different classes and replaying the campaign for the nth time, rather than doing randomised endless dungeons or whatever.