PAYDAY 2

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Can body expertise be useful?
I argued with a friend over whether body expertise can be helpful with lmgs. Well, can it?
Last edited by Sir Tontonolous; Aug 4, 2018 @ 10:16pm
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Showing 1-15 of 39 comments
Armed_Civilian Aug 4, 2018 @ 10:14pm 
wait shotgun with body expertise? it only works with assualt rifle and lmgs not shotguns..
just use overkill if you're gonna use shotguns.
Last edited by Armed_Civilian; Aug 4, 2018 @ 10:15pm
Investigate 3-11 Aug 4, 2018 @ 10:15pm 
Shotguns? idk if shotguns can be applied to BE

But to answer your question, IMO no. Even though some weapons have sub-par accuracy, there are so many skills that help increase your accuracy that BE doesn't become effective anymore (especially for 12 skill points) and it doesn't take a long time to learn your weapons recoil and learn to headshot using the weapon. And those skills would cost less than BE as well.
Sir Tontonolous Aug 4, 2018 @ 10:16pm 
Originally posted by Armed_Civilian:
wait shotgun with body expertise? it only works with assualt rifle and lmgs not shotguns..
just use overkill if you're gonna use shotguns.
Oh, right
Rex Aug 4, 2018 @ 10:16pm 
SMGs, LMG, Rifles or Special weapons work with it, every other does not work.
It works great for the super high RoF weapons like Miniguns and 1k Rof Assault Rifles.
So the point is its only useful if you use weapons that cant get headshots constantly.
Whaley-senpai Aug 4, 2018 @ 10:28pm 
With Lmgs and other bullet hoses yeah, it can be extremely useful considering controlling an lmg to hit accurate headshots at longer distances consistantly is hard unless you constantly use a bipod.

Yes you can increase accuracy and stabilty but at the end of the day your going to miss shots and you can't control the recoil perfectly so body expertise is much more reliable damage.

Always aim for the head when you can but if the setting calls for shooting first and aiming later BE helps.
Depends. If you're the type that doesn't aim for the head naturally, or just like laying down sprays of fire then sure, it's useful. It's effectively cheap critical hits, that don't stack with headshots. It's also more useful the more enemies are on the map at once, since you end up with less time-to-kill per enemy.
OKMB Aug 5, 2018 @ 10:22am 
The fun thing about this game, is that all the enemies stand at the same height, and crouch at the same height. They also dont move much (sometimes)

That means hitting consistent headshots is easy, even with low accuracy weapons. Just aim.
<(o.O)>Fezarella^ Aug 5, 2018 @ 10:41am 
Originally posted by Delta5931:
The fun thing about this game, is that all the enemies stand at the same height, and crouch at the same height. They also dont move much (sometimes)

That means hitting consistent headshots is easy, even with low accuracy weapons. Just aim.

Yeah this :( .... Hope atleast if there is a 3 this could be sorted out. Helmets flying everywhere
lexilogo Aug 5, 2018 @ 10:56am 
The main reason why people hate BE so much is, to be honest, mostly arrogance.

Look, aiming in this game and getting headshots isn't massively hard, but if you seriously think that the ability to not care about getting headshots and instead be able to bodyshot enemies to death, making spray and pray legitimately viable and not having it consume all your ammo, ISN'T going to drastically improve your TTK (Time To Kill), you're either vastly overestimating your own skill to the point of perfection, or using an aimbot.

While yes, BE doesn't matter if you land headshots, all it takes is using it to realize "Oh wait, I'm killing enemies a lot faster because I need to think less about aiming". It's very easy to fall into the trap of "well just headshot lol" which is what I first thought when I saw the skill, but upon using it I realized that it just makes my life a lot easier for builds that use those kind of weapons. Your TTK will lower when you pick up and start using BE, I can guarentee that.

Not to mention that if you're seriously getting 100% headshot accuracy with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LMG, you're probably not actually using the LMG very effectively in the first place.
Copy & Cat Aug 5, 2018 @ 11:50am 
if you roll around with low damage weapons with high crit chance i does work, but mostly just take LMGs and be lazy
Stret Aug 5, 2018 @ 11:52am 
Yes.

I usually dont take it because all you need to do to make it useless is aim for the head
Stret Aug 5, 2018 @ 11:57am 
Originally posted by lexilogo:
The main reason why people hate BE so much is, to be honest, mostly arrogance.

Look, aiming in this game and getting headshots isn't massively hard, but if you seriously think that the ability to not care about getting headshots and instead be able to bodyshot enemies to death, making spray and pray legitimately viable and not having it consume all your ammo, ISN'T going to drastically improve your TTK (Time To Kill), you're either vastly overestimating your own skill to the point of perfection, or using an aimbot.

While yes, BE doesn't matter if you land headshots, all it takes is using it to realize "Oh wait, I'm killing enemies a lot faster because I need to think less about aiming". It's very easy to fall into the trap of "well just headshot lol" which is what I first thought when I saw the skill, but upon using it I realized that it just makes my life a lot easier for builds that use those kind of weapons. Your TTK will lower when you pick up and start using BE, I can guarentee that.

Not to mention that if you're seriously getting 100% headshot accuracy with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LMG, you're probably not actually using the LMG very effectively in the first place.
I usually take the same ammount of time to kill with BE.

The difference is, i just spray and pray while aiming a bit above. When i use BE, i either play normally ( making it a waste ) or i purposely aim a bit below. Which is also a waste because i could just save 30 points and aim a bit above. It even actually makes it worse when i try to have it as a benefit because often the muscle memory of aiming on the head messes my aim up when i realise it and try to shoot using BE.

In the end of the day, why burn 30 Skill Points while you can use them on some stability skills, and then i no longer have any issue or extra time taken to aim on the head? Plus lots of more points to use?
Last edited by Stret; Aug 5, 2018 @ 11:58am
lexilogo Aug 5, 2018 @ 12:03pm 
Originally posted by Stret1311:
I usually take the same ammount of time to kill with BE.

The difference is, i just spray and pray while aiming a bit above. When i use BE, i either play normally ( making it a waste ) or i purposely aim a bit below. Which is also a waste because i could just save 30 points amd aim a bit above.

When using an unwieldy weapon (as in: the ones Oppressor focuses on), aiming high will mean you will miss many shots.

Especially in the current megahordes being thrown at us, there's an undeniable advantage in being able to get a higher % of bullets actually in cops, as opposed to worrying about making sure as many as possible are headshots (because without BE or crits, a bodyshot is little better than a missed bullet on higher difficulties), resulting in several misses thanks to recoil and a far lower bullet output because I need to control my fire.

Originally posted by Stret1311:
In the end of the day, why burn 30 Skill Points while you can use them on some stability skills, and then i nl longer have any issue or extra time taken to aim on the head? Plus lots of more points to use?

The Stability skills that are already in Oppressor already, meaning you're not exactly saving all that many skillpoints and are making the same investments you'd make towards BE anyway?

And even then, Stability assists with recoil, but never removes it (as recoil is generally determined by the weapon, not so much the direct stability stat) and doesn't affect the aiming process which is generally what BE helps with. Correct use of BE means that your reaction time will essentially be increased (because your brain can now cut out large parts of the aiming process), as well as the overall efficiency of your bullets.
Last edited by lexilogo; Aug 5, 2018 @ 12:03pm
BlackRibbon Aug 5, 2018 @ 12:17pm 
It stops being useful once you realize doing headshots does more damage.

It was useful when it let you 3 shot bulldozers in the body with any gun.
lexilogo Aug 5, 2018 @ 12:25pm 
Originally posted by Black Ribbon:
It stops being useful once you realize doing headshots does more damage.

It was useful when it let you 3 shot bulldozers in the body with any gun.

This is the issue with "White room" analysis.

Yes, even with BE, headshots are preferable to bodyshots. (unsure how many breakpoints it matters for, might have to look that up)

However, the point is that in-game, it's not as if before every shot, you pause and get a "go for a headshot, or a bodyshot?" choice, click one, and then continue. If that was the case, BE would objectively be an awful skill.

The reality is, aiming is a test of skill on behalf of the player, affected by the player's own ability, any effects that's going on that'd comprimise the player's ability to aim, recoil, weapon's inherent inaccuracy, and where headshotting is a more difficult version of simply going for a hit.

With BE, worrying about the headshot ceases to be a problem, even though headshots are preferable. It means that aiming takes less time. It means that flashbangs and smoke bombs matter less, as aiming is far easier. It means that recoil and inherent weapon inaccuracy matters less.

Also, considering that "Bulldozers are a joke" is a very common criticism of the game running around ATM, I fail to see why people want the old BE back. While I don't really think the 90% bodyshot damage was totally necessary, being able to essentially remove Bulldozers from the game was undeniably overpowered.
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Date Posted: Aug 4, 2018 @ 10:11pm
Posts: 39