Question about ammo pickup

[WinterMute 0101]

for guns like the 7.62 scarface rifle the ammo drops from cops drop almost no ammo. It can take 3 to 4 cops killed to regain 1 bullet maing it extremely inpractical to use at all if you do not carry ammo or if the mission requires moving ariund alot. While guns like the vulcan you can almodt always regain the ammo you spent or close to it. Why do guns that have so little ammo pick up so little? It is infuriating to only be able to use them for a small amount of time and if you miss a shot your ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Why is this?

[SPØØK]

yes

[Walrus-Sama]

Poorly balanced ammo pick up.

Some weapons have really good pick up, others have it so bad it ruins the weapon.

[Curious Fox]

Because OVK balnces it based on the weapon's damage.

Just note that Little Friend has one of the worst ammo pickups in the entire game because it's practically 2 weapons in one slot.

[Lyc]

The little friend is just a grenade launcher who happens to have a assault rifle strapped to it

[Curious Fox]

Originally posted by Lyc:

The little friend is just a single shot chinapuff which happens to have a DMR strapped to it.

fify

[Copy & Cat]

Little firend is an odd one, it has an great gl pickup with an horrible rifle pickup

[Kleiner's final Form]

because the ammo pickup is for only one of the two weapons, and generally they both are the kind of weapons you are supposed to use with... um... (the tier 4 ammo skill)

[UnknownMerc]

Originally posted by Curious Fox:

Because OVK balnces it based on the weapon's damage.

It used to be simply based on just a gun's total ammo and then Overkill has added a lot more convoluted exceptions to the rules.

So all snipers have much better pickup than DMRs because.... reasons???

And pistols that do similar damage to rifles will have much worse pickup because.... reasons???

The Judge just straight up has the worst pickup of any other shotgun because....????

If an unmodded game showed ammo pickup by default I bet a lot more people would be aware of how weird and bad the system is right now.

[Curious Fox]

Originally posted by Kleiner's final Form:

because the ammo pickup is for only one of the two weapons, and generally they both are the kind of weapons you are supposed to use with... um... (the tier 4 ammo skill)

Fully Loaded Ace

[lexilogo]

Originally posted by UnknownMercenary:

It used to be simply based on just a gun's total ammo and then Overkill has added a lot more convoluted exceptions to the rules.

No, gun total ammo has always been and remains a general guideline for ammo pickup but not a universal standard. There's always been plenty of guns with minor ammo pickup differences despite having identical Total Ammo stats, for no reason.

Originally posted by UnknownMercenary:

So all snipers have much better pickup than DMRs because.... reasons???

While I agree DMR pickup was over-nerfed (They've gone from the best overall weapons in the game to a very un-used category thanks to their lack of ammo economy), SRs have better pickup than DMRs because of the firerate and DPS difference.

Originally posted by UnknownMercenary:

And pistols that do similar damage to rifles will have much worse pickup because.... reasons???

Once again, firerate. Pistols have a higher skillpoint barrier of entry than rifles generally do, too.

Originally posted by UnknownMercenary:

The Judge just straight up has the worst pickup of any other shotgun because....????

Uh... Did you forget what the Judge is? If we exclude ammo management from the assessment, I would argue it's the best shotgun in the entire game. It's essentially a double-barreled shotgun with a magazine capacity of 5.

[Curious Fox]

Originally posted by UnknownMercenary:

Originally posted by Curious Fox:

Because OVK balnces it based on the weapon's damage.

It used to be simply based on just a gun's total ammo and then Overkill has added a lot more convoluted exceptions to the rules.

So all snipers have much better pickup than DMRs because.... reasons???

And pistols that do similar damage to rifles will have much worse pickup because.... reasons???

The Judge just straight up has the worst pickup of any other shotgun because....????

If an unmodded game showed ammo pickup by default I bet a lot more people would be aware of how weird and bad the system is right now.

It's still mostly with damage.

DMRs used to have much MUCH better pickup and nearly rivaled Shotguns in efficiency. OVK just nerfed ammo pickup and didn't touch the damage.

Snipers used to have surprisingly decent pickup. My first 200h of Payday was with the Repeter / R96 and I don't recall a moment of 'damn I don't have ammo' when you actively participated in battle on the front.

I quit using pistols since 2015. They have no value besides the 5/7 and Glock 18C why even bother using them. Anyway, I remember pistols used to have outright overpowered pickup and dps in 2014.

The judge is one of the strongest damage shotguns? Anyway, it used to have the same pickup as the 5/7 and OVK decided it was a good idea to give 10 more shots and nerf pickup.

[play Xenoblade Chronicles 2]

I would recommend the union assualt rifle if you want to use a decent assault rifle without ammo bags or ammo skills. It's not as good as the Car-4 but it gets the job done.

[UnknownMerc]

Originally posted by Curious Fox:

Originally posted by UnknownMercenary:

It used to be simply based on just a gun's total ammo and then Overkill has added a lot more convoluted exceptions to the rules.

So all snipers have much better pickup than DMRs because.... reasons???

And pistols that do similar damage to rifles will have much worse pickup because.... reasons???

The Judge just straight up has the worst pickup of any other shotgun because....????

If an unmodded game showed ammo pickup by default I bet a lot more people would be aware of how weird and bad the system is right now.

It's still mostly with damage.

DMRs used to have much MUCH better pickup and nearly rivaled Shotguns in efficiency. OVK just nerfed ammo pickup and didn't touch the damage.

Snipers used to have surprisingly decent pickup. My first 200h of Payday was with the Repeter / R96 and I don't recall a moment of 'damn I don't have ammo' when you actively participated in battle on the front.

I quit using pistols since 2015. They have no value besides the 5/7 and Glock 18C why even bother using them. Anyway, I remember pistols used to have outright overpowered pickup and dps in 2014.

The judge is one of the strongest damage shotguns? Anyway, it used to have the same pickup as the 5/7 and OVK decided it was a good idea to give 10 more shots and nerf pickup.

From a gameplay perspective, arguably, but the function is coded specifically off of either total ammo pickup or a forced number.

There's little reason to have DMRs nerfed down to 1 ammo (and the LF averaging 0.6) per box while sniper rifles pick up at least 1, with the Repeater and Rattlesnake being way more ammo efficient than DMRs could ever have been at the height of their OPness, with an average pickup of 4 ammo while having an AOE ability as a capstone skill.

Can't really judge pistols if you haven't used them in 3 years. The game changes a lot (slower than it used to change with more consistent updates). Pistols went from god tier in 2015 to....not so much. The main issue is that the pickup is still at the fairly low global value of pickup and has not been buffed in any way.

I largely disagree with how the Judge has been changed. It's a similar situation to how they are forcing nerfs onto DMRs, based on a theoretical DPS. And it didn't used to have the same pickup as the 5/7, that's what they nerfed it to. It actually used to consistently pick up 1 bullet per box before they decided it was a good idea for you to average 4 boxes before getting 1 bullet back.

I don't think ANY guns in the game should be picking up less than 1 bullet per box except launchers, to be honest. But again, if people really knew what pickups were without needing 3rd party mods we could have this discussion more easily.

[Unreality]

Long ago ammo pickup used to be balanced as a consistent % of total ammo then everything changed when Overkill decided to balance the game. They made AR and SMG with over 150 ammo pickup about 150% more. Shotguns with over 60 ammo and snipers with over 40 ammo pickup about 250% more.

Notably this meant that high powered AR that weren't CAR4 or AK DMR kit, before they were nerfed to oblivion, became completely worthless compared to the top tier. Likewise, akimbo weapons of all kinds and pistols also joined them as they didn't get any pickup buffs.

Weapons with very low ammo also had a very high relative ammo pickup rate partially due to upward rounding. Shotguns didn't really care since Overkill Basic is an incredibly efficient skill and a similar thing happened with snipers. The general idea has always been 1 shot, 1 kill, 1 pickup and repeat.

Little Friend is not actually a DMR with a launcher attached to it. It's a very efficient launcher with a terrible DMR attached to it. Honestly, Overkill has never made a good balance change to their game and most have been detrimental. Case in point, Speed Pull magazine.

[The Least Interesting Chibi...]

The Little Friend's ammo pick-up rate is based on the GL and not the DMR. As a result it has the best pick-up rate of all GLs.

Shotguns and Sniper Rifles originally had lower pick-up rates because they assumed that shots fired would result in multi-kills and result in multiple boxes per shot.

DMRs have bad pick-up rate, because they were over-powered and became meta. Which then resulted in their pick-up rates assuming that DMR users had perfect aim.