Harder Escape = Higher XP/Loot Multiplier

[EdisLeado]

Just played a game of Big Bank where we didn't use the Bus Escape. Instead, we used the Elevator Trick escape, and despite being much more difficult, it was one of the most fun games of Big Bank I've had in a while. That vault lobby area has been neglected for far too long.

Of course, easier escapes already cost more favours and largely eliminate the ability to place other assets on the map, but it's not a fair trade-off because you're spending far less time on the map anyways. Now, apart from some favour point tweaks, I'd really like to see an XP/lootbag secured money multiplier for choosing escape plans that are harder to pull off. As it is now, there seems to ALWAYS be one escape choice that is undeniably superior to the rest. It's quite sad as it removes not only much of the challenge, but the actual fun of escaping.

So yes, opting for more challenging escapes, such as the zip-line/helicopter escape in Big Bank, should net you far more XP/loot with a multiplier than can be clearly seen on the pre-planning screen as well as the Escape/Tab menu.

Pretty simple suggestion, but it certainly would complement the new XP system that's been implemented.

Also, something of a similar nature that could be implemented is when RNG gives you a more difficult map layout - such as placing the vault smack dab in the middle of the senator's living room in FF Day 3 - you should also be rewarded with more XP/loot for managing to finish it.

[Sir. Lagsalot]

+1

[McKillem]

Additional XP for harder escape routes - maybe, but not substantially, at least on difficulties lower than DW.

Additional loot - no, since you don't really get more of it on the way to the escape. Instead this can be controlled with the price of the asset, i.e. higher price for an easier escape asset.

[qweqweqwe]

2500% more EXP if you use the C4 Escape plz.Mostly applies to DW where Snipies are going to plug you full with holes Loud SR/Meltdown Style.

Or did Loud SR/Meltdown copy the C4 Escape Big Bank Snipers style? Who knows.

Dockyard:Van Escape & Forest:Boat escape too.

[Stoibs]

+1 for XP. Don't need more loot.
We have silly and weird XP parametres on other jobs according to that table which is floating around. Like "Time spent in heist > X Minutes" and the like, so this seems like a logical and simple addition.

I always enjoy a good Helicopter Big Bank escape, even though they are few and far between.

I don't think the C4/Sniper alley is that bad either, just F spam at the building when you duck your head out instead of blindly striding through in the line of fire and take them down from cover before moving through each time.
I actually enjoy it more than Bus since it's somewhat interesting and gives you something to do in the meantime instead of standard, boring bag tossing.

[EdisLeado]

Originally posted by McNuggets:

Additional loot - no, since you don't really get more of it on the way to the escape. Instead this can be controlled with the price of the asset, i.e. higher price for an easier escape asset.

Hmm, I suppose I was a little unclear in my original post. When I state "loot multiplier", I mean that with harder escapes, each bag secured will be worth more than they would when using easier escapes.

Anyways, even with just an XP boost, it provides an actual reason to opt for other escapes instead of the easiest one every time. The players who have the skill/coordination will benefit.

[Empress Misery]

Isn't it "balanced" by making you spend favors and money on it?

Unless all favors reduce the XP.

[DOY]

First off overkill needs to fix the crap with 8 bag cap on BB and the 4 bag exp cap on diamond. 22 bags on BB and you get the same exp as you would 8 bags being secured.

[EdisLeado]

Originally posted by Empress Misery:

Isn't it "balanced" by making you spend favors and money on it?

Unless all favors reduce the XP.

No, it's not "balanced". As I mentioned in my original post, easier escapes costing more favours (and the money along with it) is not an even trade-off at all as obtaining other assets isn't even needed because you won't be on the map long enough due to how easy the escape is. Case in point, Big Bank Bus Escape (unarguably the easiest escape of all - the damn exit is right beside the vault you're looting).

Overkill needs to give a legitimate reason to use the other 3 of 4 escape options. The only reasons for using anything but the easiest escape are either: A) because you're bored and want a challenge; or, B) because you forgot to select it.

This must be balanced by rewarding players with more money and XP for toughing it out on a more difficult escape plan.

[Empress Misery]

Elevator trick is an easy escape, and is often quicker than Bus, especially if the vault entrance is anywhere but right next to the Bus escape point. C4 tunnelling isn't really any more difficult or harder to get to, it's just annoying due to loading one bag at a time. It's not like either option other than no escape adds significant time or difficulty.

But anyway, no you shouldn't be rewarded for tiny things like not taking options you had. You should take them for a different way of playing the same heist. Which as you just suggested, you know already.

Also you are thinking about this completely from one perspective. How would this affect stealh players (who don't use any escape) Do they get bonus XP for not taking the poison cake, extra keycard or unlocked door? Also you don't think the timelock malware asset is ever needed?

[lexilogo]

If you ask me, this is the system that should be used:

C4 Escape should cost 4 assets instead of 6. Bus escape is far easier because it isn't in the firing range of 500 snipers.

That's balancing enough IMO. If Thermite also gets a buff down to 6 assets, that means you can take both Thermite and C4 as viable strategies.

[EdisLeado]

Originally posted by Empress Misery:

Elevator trick is an easy escape, and is often quicker than Bus, especially if the vault entrance is anywhere but right next to the Bus escape point. C4 tunnelling isn't really any more difficult or harder to get to, it's just annoying due to loading one bag at a time. It's not like either option other than no escape adds significant time or difficulty.

Moving bags is always tedious no matter what escape you choose, but I don't know how you can say that C4 tunneling or elevator escape aren't more difficult when you have exponentially more cops shooting at you from all angles in those as opposed to the secluded corner used for the bus escape.

And even if what you say is true - that is, all escapes being equally easy - that in itself would be a problem as they cost a different favour amounts, implying a difference in difficulty.

Originally posted by Empress Misery:

But anyway, no you shouldn't be rewarded for tiny things like not taking options you had. You should take them for a different way of playing the same heist. Which as you just suggested, you know already.

Yes, I'd love to take them for a different way of playing the same heist, but again, I maintain that the escapes all differ in terms of difficult - so it's a hard choice to NOT pick Bus Escape, simply because I know it's pretty much a guaranteed win when we crack the vault. There are far more factors that can sour the situations with ANY other escape. And even when you manage to drag your bullet-riddled body through a non-Bus Escape Big Bank game, you get the same measly reward for exerting far more effort.

Originally posted by Empress Misery:

Also you are thinking about this completely from one perspective. How would this affect stealh players (who don't use any escape) Do they get bonus XP for not taking the poison cake, extra keycard or unlocked door? Also you don't think the timelock malware asset is ever needed?

Admittedly, I forgot about the stealth aspect, but bonuses for using certain escapes (JUST escape options, not those other assets you mentioned) can still be taken into account. Elevator escape is much easier than using the default van for stealth in Big Bank for example - so if you manage to do it, you should be rightfully rewarded.

[Empress Misery]

Originally posted by EdisLeado:

And even if what you say is true - that is, all escapes being equally easy - that in itself would be a problem as they cost a different favour amounts, implying a difference in difficulty.

Go check how much they are?

[MOON_HALO]

The Style XP Bonus - I like this idea. Reward players, especially new ones in which the XP might actually mean something, for not taking the easy way out and trying new things.

As for the RNG map layout thing, I have an idea for that which may work better with Big Bank than others and might turn out to be absolute crap if actually implemented - The Random Escape / Entry Method, or just a random preplanning in general. Basically you enter the job blind - You have no idea what to expect. Did you hope that you'd be drilling the vault? Sorry, no drill, but you have thermite! Hoped you'd get the bus escape? Too bad, but you can use this C4 as part of your escape instead! Basically it would do this in return for a bonus if you manage to complete the mission, whether it be cash or XP or both, or maybe an achievement even. Just a concept.

[EdisLeado]

Originally posted by Empress Misery:

Originally posted by EdisLeado:

And even if what you say is true - that is, all escapes being equally easy - that in itself would be a problem as they cost a different favour amounts, implying a difference in difficulty.

Go check how much they are?

Well ♥♥♥♥, I could have sworn they had differing favour costs at one point. Regardless, even with identical costs, bus stop escape is still the easiest of all as it's set up in a way that takes you away from most of the action by confining the action to that tiny meeting room - making it the ideal choice for loud runs of Big Bank. So still, it's not even a choice.

I equate it to choosing the default escape instead of helicopter escape in The Bomb: Forest. It's night and day.

[Pawnstar]

This should be especially visible for Bomb: Dockyard on DW loud with default escape