Please, remove the Turret on Go Bank.

[lexilogo]

It's insanely overpowered. (On Go Bank specifically)

The point of the Turret is to deny areas. The best way to approach it is to avoid it. I'm fine with this, as long as the areas to avoid aren't vital or have enough cover to ensure that the Turret shouldn't be too much of a problem. Go Bank defies everything about this. Here's what it does to you and your team, and why it's a problem.

-Make boards entirely useless; It just bloody shoots them apart in less than a second. Not exclusive to Go Bank, but it is by far the worst there.
-Kill just about every AI partner, if you have any. Not exclusive to Go Bank, though.
-It denies an area composing of most of the bank. You know, that place where you and your team are holding out? The cops already do a good job of invading that area, we don't need a Turret backing them up!
-The skyhook pieces can land directly next to the Turret. 'Nuff said.
-The street area is already a no-go zone due to the large police presence. The Turret makes the street area practically impossible to enter (Unless you have an Inspire buddy waiting in the wings and a crap ton of medical supplies to burn).

Hopefully you can see the problem. Go Bank and Election Day B have some of the worst possible Turret placements in the game. Unless the upcoming Turret changes are going to change it in ways that wouldn't make this stuff a problem (Going by what's being thrown around, it may not), I really think Go Bank simply shouldn't have SWAT Van Turrets.

EDIT: Steam has buggered up, and I can't reply to any posts here temporarily. So, I'll for the time being respond to some of the stuff here.

I don't believe the Turret should have to be killed. Why? Maybe it's the constant "Just avoid it" that appears on these forums. It's a perfectly valid argument. The Turret is extremely easy to avoid on most maps, apart from ones where the Turret is dumped directly adjacent to multiple objectives and denies you access to those objectives. Go Bank IMO, is that map. Maybe I'm just utter crap at Go Bank specifically and am decent at most other heists, maybe I'm just a scrub who needs to feel the glory of HE rounds and molotovs, but I feel the fact a flashbang dispenser and bullet hose being placed potentially next to two of your objectives is unreasonable.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by lexilogo:

The best way to approach it is to avoid it.

Clearly, it isn't since you're obviously not able to avoid it on GO Bank. If you can't avoid it, kill it. That's best done from the roof, specifically the street-facing side of it. The large maquee gives you cover from the grocery store roof, the AC unit gives you cover from snipers or the auto body shop roof depending on where you are and the roof fences can give you cover from everything else.

If you can't avoid the Turret, kill it. The AI won't get shredded on the roof most of the time.

[lexilogo]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

*snip*

That's kind of my point. There isn't a reason to have an area of denial enemy if there are very few zones it doesn't deny :)

Okay, so killing it. Standard strategy (Other than avoiding it) is to wait for it to reload and pump a crapton of bullets into it. Doesn't work on Go Bank because the street is FAR too exposed for any form of turret elimination to happen. You need an ICTV, and even that wouldn't hold up much on Very Hard + in that kind of exposed environment.

Your roof tactic seems to be the best bet. This would require a sniper rifle (No DLC weapons, or grenades, or anything should be brought up in Turret balance threads as far as I'm concerned. We need to prove vanilla works completely fine to declare it balanced), or a high accuracy assault rifle. This would take a while, but is probably feasible. Of course, on solo this would mean sacrificing every civillian and precious time that could be spent on objectives, and a lot of ammo, but hey, it's a reliable way to kill an enemy that is not meant to be killed!

Wait. The Turret shouldn't have to be killed. The entire point of the enemy (For the time being) is that killing it is possible, and will make your life easier, but not required or recommended. Not the kind of thing where people say "Just kill it".

[Bindal]

Originally posted by lexilogo:

because the street

And that's where you're already doing it wrong. You are not supposed to be on the street trying to engage in fisticuffs with the turret. You go onto the roof of the bank, where you have more cover from the turret than on any other map.
And because of the crapton of civilians, you can also delay the turret for quite a while as the spawn of the turret is influenced by how many hostages you have. More hostages = later turret.

At least as far as I can tell, it seems to be the case on GO Bank and Four Stores. Four Stores I once did a test by having as many civilians as possible before the turret spawns - took about six minutes before it arrived first. Second attempt, ONE hostage, about two minutes.

Originally posted by lexilogo:

high accuracy assault rifle.

M308. Free for everyone, high accuracy, massive damage. Almost like it's build for dealing with turrets (obviously it wasn't). You might need your own ammobag for it, but if that's all you need, I say it's pretty easy to get that stuff togeher.

[Bran Mak Morn]

if only we had dedicated weapons for dealign with vehicles, such as an anti-materiel rifle or a RPG...

[Manish]

I get it is a major pain, but on GO Bank I feel it makes the map more of a challenge.

The turret has a pretty slow reload time, if the drill parts land near one, or the sewer exit is nearby then I usually have no issue getting to them. Circle around the back of the bank and into one of the shops either side, when it starts to reload, run, staying far away from the turrets as possible to complete the objective.

Boards usually get destroyed by HE rounds or grenades so I only use them in stealth if I can’t clean up the bodies. And the street was tough to get onto before the SWAT Van update, it is just another tool the police you to make you feel besieged.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by lexilogo:

Your roof tactic seems to be the best bet. This would require a sniper rifle, or a high accuracy assault rifle. This would take a while, but is probably feasible.

It requires neither. I picked that spot because it's close enough to take the Turret out with a machinegun. My preferred tool of choice is the Brenner-21, but most any LMG will do, even my KSP now that I've modded it for a bit more accuracy. I experimented with every spot I could pick. The roof and the auto body shop are the only ones close enough to give you reliable LMG accuracy, and the auto body shop is difficult to defend.

Originally posted by lexilogo:

Of course, on solo this would mean sacrificing every civillian and precious time that could be spent on objectives, and a lot of ammo, but hey, it's a reliable way to kill an enemy that is not meant to be killed!

Not necessarily. Store your hostages in the teller area behind the counter - cops don't go there very often. Then listen for Bain - he'll usually announce HRT spawns with enough advanced warning to act. You can cover the hostages through the bank skylight from the roof.

Originally posted by lexilogo:

Wait. The Turret shouldn't have to be killed. The entire point of the enemy (For the time being) is that killing it is possible, and will make your life easier, but not required or recommended. Not the kind of thing where people say "Just kill it".

You're making an assertion that I don't feel is based on anything concrete. At no point has there been an official statement to this effect. Indeed, player reactions to the Turret often talk about how much it gets in their way. You have a reliable means of fighting the Turret with a huge damage bonus and it's placed in locations where it hampers you. Far as I'm concerned, it's meant to be killed, with an OPTION to avoid it if you don't mind getting shot.

[ninja crouton]

Bring an ECM, put it on the ground, have your whole party attack the turret during this time. It will be dead before the ecm runs out.

Alternately, you can do what I did and "get gud", because as I have said before and I will say again, if I can solo a turret using just an HE Judge and an UAR, while fighting off cops inside the bank and the cloaker that spawns every three seconds, while Joninator and mother_flowers are in the back figthing 3 constant cloaker spawns and constant snipers while we do it on NGR ovk, then you can kill it too.

And I'm not even that good

[Rokk]

Originally posted by Temujin:

if only we had dedicated weapons for dealign with vehicles, such as an anti-materiel rifle or a RPG...

Except that both of those weapons are DLC, which means you need to pay for them.

And those two weapons are by far your worst choices for dealing with the turret, until the armor is off.

Originally posted by ninja crouton:

Bring an ECM, put it on the ground, have your whole party attack the turret during this time. It will be dead before the ecm runs out.

Alternately, you can do what I did and "get gud", because as I have said before and I will say again, if I can solo a turret using just an HE Judge and an UAR, while fighting off cops inside the bank and the cloaker that spawns every three seconds, while Joninator and mother_flowers are in the back figthing 3 constant cloaker spawns and constant snipers while we do it on NGR ovk, then you can kill it too.

And I'm not even that good

Impressive, now try that without DLC.

I'm sure that some people could handle having every cop replaced with Bulldozers, that doesn't mean it's fun or balanced in any way. The turret is too tedious and obnoxious as it is right now, GO Bank is too much of a headache to bother with.

[ninja crouton]

Originally posted by Rokk:

try that without DLC.

I have. It requires an ammo bag if you just want to shoot it down by yourself, whereas if you have an HE judge you don't need a bag (breaking that shield is the hard part). Or, once again, get the team to focus it down and it will only take like 10 seconds

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by ninja crouton:

It requires an ammo bag if you just want to shoot it down by yourself.

That's literally all it takes. You don't need DLC guns, you don't need special grenades or anything of the sort. Just enough ammo to chew through the Turret's damage. The one on Go Bank isn't even one of the difficult ones, as it's situated close enough to both the roof and the auto body shop door to be easily taken out with conventional weapons.

If you want to talk about bad Turrets, try Election Day or Hoxton Revenge.

[*.)]

They spawn at a fixed location and time.

Keep the street yours while you wait for them, then take them out.

No need to remove.

[SC]

I don't mind the turret, but that overhaul for it couldn't come any faster.

Originally posted by ninja crouton:

(breaking that shield is the hard part).

Which is the problem with the stupid thing, it's that autistic as ♥♥♥♥ shield. I don't want 10k damage worth of bullets to essentially do NOTHING to the turret's combat effectiveness.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by SC:

Which is the problem with the stupid thing, it's that autistic as ♥♥♥♥ shield. I don't want 10k damage worth of bullets to essentially do NOTHING to the turret's combat effectiveness.

While your use of "autistic" as an insult is beyond tasteless...

I can't in good conscience disagree with your appraisal. Fighting the Turret Sheild is an exercise in tedium and wasted ammunition. Some days I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just scrap the sheild entirely and spawn Turrets shield-less straight away. Still bullet-spongey, but at least your rounds will always do SOMETHING.

[SC]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

While your use of "autistic" as an insult is beyond tasteless...

Are we really going there? Where we play a damn game of doing REALLY bad things including potentially starting armageddon on several occasions, lighting people on fire, mass murder that can rival Leopold the second...

You may need to get Thick Skin aced guy.

[lexilogo]

Originally posted by SC:

Originally posted by Malidictus:

While your use of "autistic" as an insult is beyond tasteless...

Are we really going there? Where we play a damn game of doing REALLY bad things including potentially starting armageddon on several occasions, lighting people on fire, mass murder that can rival Leopold the second...

You may need to get Thick Skin aced guy.

I know. That attitude is so wheelchair-bound! Christ, I bet that guy has a replacement hip and learning disability!

Please, let's not resort to needless use of legitimate disabilites as insults. So typical of people with PTSD.

*extreme sarcasm present*