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My mind is actually blown by that.
No amount of favors in the world could make loading the Beast onto the bus and ramming it in not supscious enough to immediatley call the police before the heist even begins.
Since I love stealth and Car Shop and GGC, I don't necessarily feel the same way. On One Down it does feel like too many guards at first, but eventually you learn which guards to kill and how to move and the heist becomes Shadow Raid easy to navigate. The payout on the Blue Garnets is very unrewarding for something that feels harder than the actual heist in addition to being a stealth only reward. I don't mind it being stealth restriction except that stealth feels easier than loud so it doesn't really match risk-reward of attempting a hybrid stealth-loud attempt. Frankly I would just put 60sec unbreakable drills ala GGC on them like how The Diamond has in loud, and just make them part of the heist's common loot.
Also... Not that I don't mind short heists, but what's with this trend in sub-15min heists. These don't feel like heists so much as action advertisements.
The excuse people used back in the day is the cops would seal off the exists to the parking garage if we use the bus right at the start. Doesn't tell me why we couldn't C4 our way through the wall from the otherside, but your versin makes sense - need some way to get the Beast in. Sure, I'll go with that :)
Yeah, I also thought the open hatch on the levator was intended as a hiding spot for body bags. I never tried because shooting guards in this hiest tends to lead to a cockup cascade, but it still surprises me that it's not usable for that. Seems like an oversight. And it's not like hiding a body in an elevator is "insecure." I threw a body bag out of a window and down to the street below with no consequences whatsoever :)
The vault area, though, is really doofy. I understand that Overkill wanted to have cop spawn points inside the vault to avoid creating the same MASSIVE choke point at the door as with the First World Bank. It's just that those catwalks are a bad way to go about it. They look silly, they serve no real-world purpose and they make the interior feel more cramped than impressive. The vault doesn't look like a vault. It looks like the Red Room in "The Diamond." And again - those "doors" are just rectangular cutouts in the wall not shaped like a door and with no apparent actual DOORS attached to them.
I'd personally have gone with air vents on the ceiling, Mission Impossible style. That makes at least action movie logic. If we HAVE to keep the side doors, at least give them vault door graphics. Start them off as closed, have the cops open them when they first spawn with all the sounds associated with that. At least that way busting through the front door doesn't seem so pointless.
Was it longer in Payday: The Heist? Seems about on par with most of the other Classics. Well, aside from Counterfeit, obviously.
It's unfortunate, because were it not for this very repetitive backtracking for each bag, this would be a solo-stealth friendly heist, but it's not because they didn't give us any shortcuts to secure all 8 bags. Sure, the alarms and codes are doable, but the bags just bore me to death with how much time it can take.
I think it's a nice looking heist and a good revision of a classic, but the newer stealth aspects leave a little to be desired for me.
Now, I get why Jewelry loot is worth very little, since it's the easiest loot to secure and move. But it feels that we didn't really rob them of that much.
Moving the loot can be tricky as well, so taking out some guards to open up a fast route to the drop off point is something to consider.
EDIT: I would lie to add that the guards' have their own small areas they patrol on, kinda like Dockyard, but it's not in order. So care should be taken if you wan tto take out some pairs to dominate a small area for bag carrying. And some rooms guards never go into, and once you learn which they are it's a goo dplace to put body bags in.
Speaking of body bags, you can toss them off the roof and they'll disappear.
Yeah, the secure location is the window-cleaning platform you used to enter the building and where all the Assets are. Incidentally, I had a weird bug where Assets spawnd at all three possible entry points (which is how I know there are three of them). Hasn't happened since, so I don't know what caused it.
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Something I forgot to include in my original critique is the heist's randomisation, which is kind of good and bad. Since I'm on a roll, let's look at those:
Good Randomisation
There's a security room with a camera guard in the building, but where that security room is changes quite a bit. I don't know what all of the possible locations even are, since one time I couldn't even FIND the thing. There are a lot of locked, uninteractive doors around the map, and I'm pretty sure the security room can spawn in at least three or four different spots. They aren't immediately obvious, either. Because of how busy the heist's overall design is, it's very easy to miss a nondescript grey door against a backdrop of framed glass and fancy swag. I personally consider this a good thing, as it rewards attention to detail on the player's part. Like, I'll see a glass office on one side and then completely run past it, not realising it takes up only half the available space with the security room taking up the other half. I like that.
Seems like the various offices on the map can also randomly be open or closed. I think this may just be down to which office the CFO is in, but I THINK the general layout of the map can move around at least a little bit. Naturally, stuff like junction boxes and laptops with code numbers on them also move around, though there don't seem to be terribly many positions for them. Junction boses in particular seem to have a habit of spawning right next to each other, rendering there being two of them pointless. Computers can sometimes also spawn in adjacent rooms. I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing, but it's noteworthy.
Bad Randomisation
There's absolutely no randomisation of the loose diamonds around the building. The pedistals are always in the same spots, always holding the same gems. To bring back The Diamond again, part of the fun with that is actually LOOKING for the loot, trying to identify loot worth stealing as you make your way through the map. Sure, the displays are always in the right spots, but there are somthing like 50 of 'em, and only a dozen have anything worth stealing so you have to go check manually. In the Diamond Heist, all loot is always in the same spot and kind of hard to tell apart from the environment, so it's more an exercise of going through the motions. I guess that doesn't matter so much since the loose diamonds feel so unrewarding, but I'm not a fan of that design.
To contradict myself, there's TOO MUCH randomness about the Red Diamond. As far as I'm concerned, that's the coup de grace of the whole heist. It's a massive, beautiful diamond which looks like it qualifies as a score. Everything else is just "assorted loot." Not having that spawn is annoying in much the same way that the Meth Lab on Bomb Dockyard not spawning is annoying. It doesn't add to the challenge or the excitement, it just means the heist has a chance of being that much less interesting. Optional side objectives should not have a "chance" to appear. Whether players puruse them or not should be the player's choice, not the game's choice. Well, as far as I'm concerned, anyway.
Yes, the security room location in the "party wing" is immediately next to the entry point in that same wing. You should feel lucky if you get that, as taking out the cameras makes the heist SIGNIFICANTLY easier.
Stepladders exist :) Failing that, we can always use ropes. I mean the bots have a seemingly infinite supply of them. We used a rope ladder on Scarface. Failing all of that, the catwalks aren't really that tall. The heisters can probably boost and pull each other onto them, and the gem bags are light.
It's the presentation of it that bothers me, though, as this is so easily fixed. Add a line from Bain surprised at the extra entrances, or else explaining why we didn't choose to go that way. A more secure-looking door leading out of the vault area. Less clutter ♥♥♥♥ on the terraces, taller ceiling so tall people don't risk smashing their heads on it as they walk. The whole thing feels incredibly rushed and unfinished. Was it really like this in Payday: The Heist?
I only succesfully stealthed it 2 times on OD, but I think the amount of guard is just enough for the challenge, I don't see why this is annoying from a gameplay perspective since it encourages you to be careful, unless you count the "bleep" everytime the detection meter is building up.
I found a lot of hiding spot, most of them even allow me to bypass the waiting of the guard's path, desk, pillars, heck cafeteria chair works. Also regarding guards coming from many direction.. I'm sorry to say this but I think it's not a valid criticism for the annoying aspect of gameplay since the guards have flashlights.
Also for the eagle eye guards, where did you experience this situation? I'm a bit curious since in my experience the pathing of the guards rarerly crossed with each other so taking one of them out is not too risky, with cafeteria and vault surrounding being an exception.
Disagreement aside, I agree with the cams, counting the bleep into account, I move a bit and 80% I'll hear a cam beep. Taking out the cam guard also amazingly, as you said in previous post, cut out the dificulty of the heist by a huge margin.
Those are not "hiding spots," though. A hiding spot is somewhere the guards don't go, or at the very least go rarely, somewhere you can crouch and let a guard pass without having to dance around a tiny obstacle at head height while challenging Desync to a contest of chance. Take the hallways in the various wings, for instance. The have a number of couches, but none tall enough to actually hide behind. Why couldn't those have had a tall backrest so I can hide on the other side of one as a guard passes? As it stands, I need a guard to clear the hallway entirely before I can move to one of the rooms.
There ARE a few hiding spots, naturally. The little kitchen area in the rec room, a few offices with actual solid walls, the various staircases leading up, but those are specific spots on an otherwise large map. Hell, even the elevator shaft isn't a great hiding spot because you can get seen by guards walking across. Like I said - the heist is not impossible to stealth. It doesn't feel as deliberately designed as something like Shadow Raid, however, or even something as simple as the Alesso Heist. That has spots obviously designed to hide in relative safety, paths which snake behind common guard and civilian positions and props tall enough to hide behind without too much issue. The Diamond Heist map feels like someone designed it before the decision to add a stealth component was made.
There are a lot of very long sight lines. Guards from one wing can see dead bodies on the far side of the other wing, for instance. It happened to me. Bumped into a guard downstairs on the party wing, outside towards the city. Shot him, then a guardin the under-construction win saw him through his own window, through the outside window of my wing and through both glass walls of the downstairs office. Cascade failure is easily my least favourite aspect of stealth. It seems like guards can spot dead bodies, bags and uncool civilians from 50-60 meters or so. They can't spot ME carrying a body bag from 10 meters away, but they'll spot the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ body bag itself across the building.
That's more of a general stealth gripe, though. I don't like cascade failure in video games as it makes the entire thing very touch-and-go. And yet, the Diamond Heist has the highest potential for cascade failure of any Stealth heist I can think of. More so than the Car Shop since that has a lot more solid walls, more so than Bomb Dockyard unless you start popping people outside in the open. I feel the heist could have done with a few more solid walls.