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Tartışma Kuralları ve Yönergeleri
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If you are in epics you are likely not a beginner anymore.
Not really sure what to say to this disambiguation. Spot isn't necessary for VETERAN players. Because they know where the traps are. Spot is ESSENTIAL for new players. Or there's no point taking trapping skills in the first place. As for, "Spot is to slow for most players," Yes, perhaps. But we're not talking about MOST players; we're talking about BEGINNERS. Who move slowly and cautiously, as a rule. And who, if they plan on trapping, certainly had better do so.
As for "As long as you keep up to date on your trapping gear," you make my point for me: beginners won't. Either they won't be aware of the necessity, or they won't have the best gear available.
Then there's the 14 Int idea. Which gives you +2 Skill points over whatever your class normally gets. Which is enough to keep up ONE trapping skill if it's a cross-class skill.
No. I'm not 'just plain wrong'.
True. But again misleading. Because you have to survive long enough to GET to epics, and it's not like a low-level caster is MORE survivable.
"Pick 3 wizard levels", "Take 1 rogue level", "casters are more newbie friendly than martial classes" no. Just no. More or less deep multiclass builds are a bad advice for a newbie in general. New players wanna get going! These sort of builds look like rocket science to the inexpereinced players. I mean nobody new to the game knows when to pick what and why, regardless of how well you explain. Even returners have to relearn multiclass stuff.
Going into detail now: First of all, 1 level of a trapper class like rogue f.e. doesn't work out on its own. Why? Enough int is needed to have the skill points for being a reliable trapper. A lack of skill points means a newbie will not be able to spot/search/disarm anything higher than normal mode (if at all). Gear is needed on top. This means the newbie has to split his stats in favor of trapping. Epic mode is out of question. Sticking to normal mode is recommended. Then again, assuming a newbie would really stick to normal mode all the way through, traps could just be facetanked with ease making multiclass builds specialized in things like trapping (or undead pale master addition) redundant and unnessessary.
To sum this up: Its nice and all, yes. But not a good advice for a newbie. New players should not mess with anything specialzed when they first start out. Normal mode doesn't need anything like that.
Then someone mentioned a paladin is a safe bet regarding self-heals. This is wrong. A paladin is not a safe-bet. A cleric is. Lay on hands is a nice self-heal. It helps of course. But you have a very low amount available early on. It adds up way too slow. But this is the go-to self-heal of a paladin. Keep in mind, newbies don't zoom zoom through content. A little bit of pressure and 5 lay on hands, small heals (that get interupted infight anyways) and that 10 min cooldown heal to full can be used up in single fight. A paladin newbie will still need a healer hireling for these moments of facetanking traps and harder fights. So a paladin is not a safe bet in this regard. It is a safe bet as a reliable THF dps though.
To sum this up: Its nice and all, yes. But not a good advice for a newbie either. Paladins are tanky. Yes They have self-heals. Yes. They can pack a punch. Yes. But they still need support, like every other class. If a newbie wants to be a powerhouse of a healer and dps at the same time, a cleric is the real safe bet here. Hirelings should be considered either way.
Last but not least, casters are definitely not as beginner friendly as martial classes for one simple reason: Ability bloat. On top, newbies would have to constantly google what all that spells actually do. The description alone is not enough for a D&D/DDO newcomer. A barb, fighter or paladin smashes his 1 or 2 buttons in the lower levels while a wizard f.e. could already have two skillbars full of spells. The mentioned classes are all more than capable of doing good dps. Of course. But someone new to the game is less likely to get overwhelmed with a martial class like a barb. Period.
To sum all of the above up: Anything not straight forward will confuse a new player even more. Might just put that effort into a full step by step build instead.
Free to Play Paladin
Paladin 20
Lawful Good Human
Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .16 . . . 4: STR
Dexterity . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . 8: STR
Constitution. . 14. . . .14 . . .12: STR
Intelligence. . .8. . . . 8 . . .16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . 14. . . .14 . . .20: STR
Charisma. . . . 14. . . .16 . . .24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR
Skills
All points into Intimidate and Use Magic Device.
Feats
1. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
.1 Human bonus Feat : Power Attack
.1 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
3. . . . : Child of Faith
6. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
.6 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
9. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
12. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
15. . . . : Beloved of Faith
18. . . . : Toughness
Spells to Slot
Bless (4), Cure Light Wounds (6), Lesser Restoration (14), Protection from Evil (18)
Angelskin (8), Righteous Command (10), Resist Energy (16), Owl's Wisdom (19)
Prayer (11), Cure Moderate Wounds (12), Magic Circle Against Evil (19), Dispel Magic (19)
Holy Sword (14), Zeal (15), Death Ward (19), Cure Serious Wounds (20)
Enhancements (Spent: 80 +0r +0u / Max: 80 +0r +0u AP)
Knight of the Chalice (42 AP)
Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil III, Champion of Good
Extra Smites III, Shieldbreaker I
Divine Might III, Exalted Cleave: Melee, Action Boost: Power III
Holy Combatant, Divine Sacrifice: Melee I, Lead the Charge I, Exalted Smite: Melee III, Strength
Knight's Training, Censure Demons, Vigor of Life
Ascendency, Censure Outsiders, Vigor of Life, Avenging Cleave: Melee, Holy Retribution: Melee
Sacred Defender (26 AP)
Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense, Divine Righteousness, Redemption
Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III, Sacred Armor Mastery III
Bulwark Aura III
Resistance Aura III, Tenacious Defense III
Swift Defense, Hardy Defense III
Human (12 AP)
Attack Boost, Strength
Action Surge: Strength II, Improved Recovery
Great Weapon Aptitude III
Improved Recovery
Leveling Guide (when to put what into the Enhancement trees mentioned above)
KoC0 Slayer of Evil; KoC1 Extra Smites I, II, III
KoC1 Shieldbreaker I; KoC2 Exalted Cleave: Melee; KoC2 Action Boost: Power I, II
KoC0 Courage of Heaven; KoC2 Action Boost: Power III; KoC3 Holy Combatant
SD0 Holy Bastion; SD1 Extra Lay On Hands I, II; SD1 Durable Defense I
SD1 Durable Defense II; SD0 Sacred Defense; KoC3 Exalted Smite: Melee I
KoC0 Slayer of Evil II; KoC3 Exalted Smite: Melee II
KoC3 Exalted Smite: Melee III; SD1 Durable Defense III; SD1 Extra Lay On Hands III; SD2 Bulwark Aura I
SD2 Bulwark Aura II; SD0 Divine Righteousness; SD3 Tenacious Defense I, II
SD3 Tenacious Defense III; KoC3 Divine Sacrifice: Melee I; KoC4 Knight's Training
KoC4 Censure Demons; KoC4 Vigor of Life; KoC3 Lead the Charge I
KoC2 Divine Might I, II, III; SD3 Resistance Aura I
KoC0 Improved Courage of Heaven; KoC5 Holy Retribution: Melee; KoC5 Ascendency
KoC5 Censure Outsiders; KoC5 Avenging Cleave: Melee
KoC5 Vigor of Life; SD3 Resistance Aura II; SD2 Bulwark Aura III; SD3 Resistance Aura III
SD1 Sacred Armor Mastery I, II; SD0 Redemption; SD4 Swift Defense
SD4 Hardy Defense I, II, III; SD1 Sacred Armor Mastery III
Hum0 Attack Boost; Hum1 Improved Recovery
Hum0 Strength; KoC0 Slayer of Evil III; Hum1 Action Surge: Strength I, II
Hum2 Great Weapon Aptitude I, II, III
Hum3 Improved Recovery; KoC3 Strength; KoC0 Champion of Good
Thanks for the backup. I was beginning to think nobody remembered what this game was like to a newbie.
That being said, and without digging deeply into the build you've posted.. why UMD and Intimidate?
A first-life beginner is unlikely to get enough UMD to matter, nor to know for what to use it. Seems like odd advice.
As for Intimidate, there are two possibilities, the second of which branches into two possibilities.
Either this player is soloing (and Intimidate is a waste of time) or they're in a group.
If they're in a group, either it's not all beginners (and taking aggro is a bad idea for a beginner) or it is.. the only case in which Intim is a potentially good recommendation.. IF they know how to use it.
I'd definitely choose two completely different skills: Spot and Balance. Admittedly, both are cross-class skills for a Paladin, but that doesn't affect their value. Seeing sneaky characters before they attack is important to any character, so Spot or Listen is a must, imo. And being prone is not just a loss of DPS, but makes you susceptible to increased damage, so Balance to get up quicker is equally crucial for a melee class (again, imo).
And the nice thing about them is that neither requires any active use whatsoever. You take them, and your play experience simply improves. Which makes them beginner-friendly.
Having now looked closer at this build.. I'm pretty impressed. The Feat choices (combined with some of the Enhancements) are almost ideal: Make the Greatsword your Favored Weapon and get the maximum bonuses for it. Very nice.
I might quibble a bit on the stats, but not enough to really matter.
And I haven't looked at all the Enhancement choices.
So my only real concern is the skills choice. I'm rather curious what the justification for those is.
Regarding Intimidate: A Paladin makes a good dps, a good tank and can support with heals. Playing solo with a hireling however is where Intimidate offers the option to grab the aggro off of it. This is pretty nice. On top, its always good for a beginner to have some of the Quest dialogue options like Diplomacy, Bluff, or Intimdate. So it is indeed a beginner friendly multi-purpose skill. Not a must by any means, but very useful.
Regarding UMD: A Paladin has good defensives, but certain defensives are only available to other classes. UMD makes it possible to use basic spells of other classes as scrolls and wands. This means it can make up for the defensives he was lacking (arcane magic) without multiclassing by using those basic spells in form of scrolls and wands. Again, not a must have, but definitely a good pick.
I don't disagree.. in general.
But Intimidate and the use thereof is not likely something a beginner will understand. There's certainly nothing except the description of the skill itself to tell them how to use it. In fact, if it isn't automatically put on their shortcut bar at character creation, odds are they won't ever even get that far.
As for UMD, I know what it's for. I'd need specifics as to what scrolls and wands, I guess. But lets say you meant Jump, for example. You're still expecting a beginner to realize there is such a thing as a Jump scroll and find out where to buy it. So while it might well prove useful, the odds it will actually be used are much lower.
Assuming newcomers are really absolute bloody beginners not capable of even checking things on their own, like f.e. what can actually be put into skill bars (and this can be easily overlooked indeed), then not only Intimidate or UMD skills would be far from beginner friendly but the Paladin class as a whole wouldn't be. Putting points into Enhancement trees unlocks abilities that have to be pulled into a skill bar as well. The only difference is: They are listed under a different tab.
I'd say setting up the UI is definitely a much easier task than the whole build aspect.
Now using the Intimidate skill is nothing special either. Especially not with a little bit of basic MMO knowledge. I wouldn't expect a newbie to be that inexperienced to struggle with something like this. If they really do though, they would still have more dialogue options for a more immersive questing experience.
But lets be real. Who starts with DDO as his first MMO when there is other games which are way more accessible? I mean, its possible a DDO newcomer can learn the basics of tanking here too. Hitting an enemy requires 1 button press. Grabbing its aggro involves 2 (with intimitanking). When to go for it requites a little bit of learning-by-doing maybe, but thats about it.
Yet nowadays people of all ages and cultures tend to already have the most basic knowledge of how the holy trinity (tank, heal, dps) system works from playing any of the casual mainstream MMO's. I'd expect new players to be overwhelmed with details about D&D rules and its builds rather than any of the very basic aspects of an MMORPG.
If you ask me, its not nessessary to make a build as easy as possible. Its enough for a build to be easy to understand, follow and play for everyone new to the game. Getting the hang of everything comes with the time anyways.
You made good points nonetheless.
Yours are also. Frankly, it might be nice for newbies if DDO put everything you could put on a shortcut bar into one place. There are Feats, Skills, Enhancements, Weapon Sets, Spells, Items... Hopefully by the time one gets to EDs, they have the concept well in hand. :)
Thing is, that'd be overkill and probably swamp the player with possibilities. OTOH, it's easy to overlook the Skills, since only a few of them are Active Skills.. and Idr how clearly DDO's tutorial presents the concept of Active vs Passive abilities in the first place.
So it's probably not completely unreasonable to pick Active Skills. I'm still not convinced that particular pair would be the best newbie choices, though. And I don't think it unreasonable to acknowledge that it's possible for a beginner to overlook the Skills tab when first loading shortcut bars.
And I think that making a build as easy as possible is indeed the ideal for a beginner build. If you're going to be there to hand-hold, that's a different thing entirely. But if you're recommending a build to newbies who might not have help with the concepts right away? Then you want everything as straightforward as humanly possible.
This Paladin build is a very good one. You could do much worse than to follow it.