Irritated at the non-lethal approach

[Ubernerd Lucas]

Free weekend player here. I put about an hour into Dishonored, so maybe I'm just not far enough yet, but it seems to me that the game doesn't want me to have fun. I get reminded every other loading screen that if I want the best ending, I should kill as few people as possible. However, the game keeps giving me things to make *killing* more fun and varied, while ignoring the non-lethal approach. I can only choke out so many guys from behind before it starts to get really boring. Does the non-lethal approach get better once you start unlocking powers, or is it gonna be a long slog 'sneak, choke, repeat?'

[Incunabulum]

Why not play the way you want to play and not worry about the ending? What makes it the 'best' anyway? Its just an ending, no better or worse than any other.

[Ubernerd Lucas]

Originally posted by Incunabulum:

Why not play the way you want to play and not worry about the ending? What makes it the 'best' anyway? Its just an ending, no better or worse than any other.

Because I like getting immersed and invested in a story and want what I presume is the happiest story outcome. Plus, I have no problem being non-lethal, I just wish the game wouldn't put such an emphasis on the lethal approach but then nag me to not kill people.

[HunterKiller]

There's always, New Game. If you got it for a free weekend, what does it matter? Run through it. If you like it, buy it. Play it how you want to then. But for now, play all you can out of it. See how far you can go and who knows, you may finish it. ;)

[shoopy]

You can kill. Just don't mindlessly slaughter everyone you see. I think it's something like less than 20% of the people and you're ok.

[Ubernerd Lucas]

Originally posted by HunterKiller:

There's always, New Game. If you got it for a free weekend, what does it matter? Run through it. If you like it, buy it. Play it how you want to then. But for now, play all you can out of it. See how far you can go and who knows, you may finish it. ;)

I'm trying do get through it. Just so pressed for time this weekend. Really wish they'd put free weekends at more convenient times for me lol.

Originally posted by ardiel:

You can kill. Just don't mindlessly slaughter everyone you see. I think it's something like less than 20% of the people and you're ok.

Ah, that's a relief to hear. Gives me some leeway when spotted so I can kill in self defense instead of save scumming.

[shoopy]

Originally posted by Ubernerd Lucas:

Originally posted by HunterKiller:

There's always, New Game. If you got it for a free weekend, what does it matter? Run through it. If you like it, buy it. Play it how you want to then. But for now, play all you can out of it. See how far you can go and who knows, you may finish it. ;)

I'm trying do get through it. Just so pressed for time this weekend. Really wish they'd put free weekends at more convenient times for me lol.

Originally posted by ardiel:

You can kill. Just don't mindlessly slaughter everyone you see. I think it's something like less than 20% of the people and you're ok.

Ah, that's a relief to hear. Gives me some leeway when spotted so I can kill in self defense instead of save scumming.

Yeah it'd be pretty brutal if they made it so you can't even kill one person.

You do get an acheivement for killing absolutely nobody but that could be done later.

[lexilogo]

That is a good point actually. Think about it. Let's look at lethal and non-lethal weapons and powers in Dishonored:

Non-lethal: Stun darts.

Lethal: Grenades, Springrazors, Pistol, Explosive bolts, Standard Bolts, Devouring Swarm, Time Stop (you can use it to alter the path of bullets and thus kill guards with it), Sword, Windblast (used to knock guards off ledges), Possession (possessing a wolfhound is somewhat effective for killing off isolated guards far distances from each other).

Does anyone else see a problem with this?

[Paul Debrion]

A lot of the "lethal" the weapons have non-lethal purposes.

-Grenades: These are probably the best portable device for attracting groups of guards to another location, not many people ignore explosions. A grenade in the right place can literally empty a room long enough to take everything inside without killing anyone.
They can also be used to breach wooden locked doors without the key.

-Explosive Bolts: See above, but direct fire.

-Standard Bolts: They are the best way to break glass casings from a distance without giving yourself away. They can also be used to temporarily move singular guards from their posts.

-Windblast: It's one of the best ways to blow away weaker locked doors while making as little noise as possible. An alternative to the grenade for that purpose.

-Time Stop: You can use to exploit smaller time windows in guard patrol routes, reducing the need to deal with them directly.


The only true "only lethal" direct-use weapons IMO are:
-Sword
-Pistol
-Devouring Swarm

Two of the passives, Shadow Kill and Blood Thirsty, are lethal but the other two are not.

[urmom]

Originally posted by ProfessorPaul1290:

A lot of the "lethal" the weapons have non-lethal purposes.

-Grenades: These are probably the best portable device for attracting groups of guards to another location, not many people ignore explosions. A grenade in the right place can literally empty a room long enough to take everything inside without killing anyone.
They can also be used to breach wooden locked doors without the key.

-Explosive Bolts: See above, but direct fire.

-Standard Bolts: They are the best way to break glass casings from a distance without giving yourself away. They can also be used to temporarily move singular guards from their posts.

-Windblast: It's one of the best ways to blow away weaker locked doors while making as little noise as possible. An alternative to the grenade for that purpose.

-Time Stop: You can use to exploit smaller time windows in guard patrol routes, reducing the need to deal with them directly.


The only true "only lethal" direct-use weapons IMO are:
-Sword
-Pistol
-Devouring Swarm

Two of the passives, Shadow Kill and Blood Thirsty, are lethal but the other two are not.

You can use the sword to bang a wall and make noise, and you can also use the pistol for that same purpose.

[Shralla]

You can kill like a hundred people in your trip through the game and still get the good ending. Yes it is a weak point of the game, but don't be afraid to kill people when you feel like it.

[Drahcir0]

But killing people is so much fun c: like srsly. I invested all my money in my pistol, and it feels ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ badass to play with her (yes her SHES SPECIAL, OK?)

[lexilogo]

Originally posted by ProfessorPaul1290:

A lot of the "lethal" the weapons have non-lethal purposes.

-Grenades: These are probably the best portable device for attracting groups of guards to another location, not many people ignore explosions. A grenade in the right place can literally empty a room long enough to take everything inside without killing anyone.
They can also be used to breach wooden locked doors without the key.

-Explosive Bolts: See above, but direct fire.

-Standard Bolts: They are the best way to break glass casings from a distance without giving yourself away. They can also be used to temporarily move singular guards from their posts.

-Windblast: It's one of the best ways to blow away weaker locked doors while making as little noise as possible. An alternative to the grenade for that purpose.

-Time Stop: You can use to exploit smaller time windows in guard patrol routes, reducing the need to deal with them directly.


The only true "only lethal" direct-use weapons IMO are:
-Sword
-Pistol
-Devouring Swarm

Two of the passives, Shadow Kill and Blood Thirsty, are lethal but the other two are not.

I don't count that as non-lethal. For evasion runs, yes (as in no eliminations) but that just falls into the stealth category. I didn't count Shadow Kill or Blood Thirsty for the same purpose: My personal definition of a non lethal weapon/power is one capable of incapacitating or otherwise neutralizing an enemy directly, not a tool that aids you. Lethal is similar, the exception obviously being the end result is a dead opponent. My point was that if you want to knock out a guard, you either strangle, or you stun dart. That's it. No slapping with swords or using the weapon butt to get em, no minor electric shocks (And no, what you're thinking of doesn't count). Compare that to the amount of choice people going loud have, and that's pretty bad.

Don't misunderstand me, many of the weapons at your disposal have uses for most playstyles (though a nonlethal stealthist would consider using grenades and springrazors unthinkable), but if you want to incapacitate one of your foes, you don't have options. You wanna kill one of your foes? You've got dozens of choices. That is a problem in my eyes :1

[Paul Debrion]

I'm not sure if that is too much of a problem. I mean you have a close quarters and a long range way to knock out guards (strangle or sleep dart) and that covers most use cases. Knocking them out with impact would either only work on unaware guards and be redundant, or work at any time and be overpowered.
The only thing we're really missing functionally is a a non-lethal trap, which would be nice to have.

It's worth nothing that the "Daud Campaign" DLC (Knife of Dunwall, Brigmore Witches) a non-lethal trap, which I would be really nice if it was in the main game.

Originally posted by lexilogo:

(though a nonlethal stealthist would consider using grenades and springrazors unthinkable)

Springrazors I can see being purely lethal, but I disagree with grenades. Stealth means avoiding detection and using grenades doesn't mean being detected.

You can set off a grenade in another room to make the guards go see what it was and they might now something has gone wrong, but technically they still don't detect you. They raise an alarm, but there are ways to prevent that.

[ghost]

Yes, the "game" doesn't want you to have fun.

You are in control of how you play the game. Maybe if you didn't feel you had to rush to complete the game in a weekend, you'd find that you can play the game however you want and then play it again to try it another way.

For some, like myself, playing sneaky and trying to bypass people without being seen is FUN. But if you want to attach springrazors to people's heads during stop time and then watch from a rooftop, that's cool too. Go for it.

Who cares about the ending? It's all subjective anyway. Or, do you really think you can kill hundreds of people in your quest to return Emily to the throne and still be "good"?

[illuknisaa]

If you dont want the game treat you as a murderous psychopath then don't act like a murderous psychopath.

It's simple really.

I did a full ghost, non lethal, no upgrades or magic playthrough. It wasn't that hard because blink is op.