why havelock such an idiot?

[ice]

he's criminally dumb/suicidal to mess with the supernatural assassin blade master touched by a dark god who has been uncannily eliminating every high profile person in the city without a scratch, either by unleashing a whirlwind of death against their literal armies and mechanized soldiers assigned to personally protect them, or silently eliminating each one by one without ever being heard or seen as so much as a whisper or shadow in the corner of someones eye, sometimes even combining these things to some extent

I also don't think corvo is literally dumb enough or lacks the situational awareness to have allowed himself to get poisoned in the first place, he just doesn't seem like he would lack the maturity, experience, and self preservation to let it happen

either way Havelock is the absolute biggest idiot I've seen in a game, he's even dumber than a bond villian, he's on a whole level of sub-zero iq decision making all on his own, did the outsider literally scramble his brains?

[Lord Of Dorkness]

To be a little fair to Havelock...

The plan ALMOST worked. And it really only failed because the one person he underestimated grew a conscience and then ran like buggery itself was after him.

Besides, people doing stupid ♥♥♥♥ for power? Hardly unrealistic.

[Valden21]

Havelock's not stupid. He became an admiral before Empress Jessamine was assassinated, so he reached that position solely on his competence and intelligence. What spelled his end is that he underestimated Corvo's general loyalty to the Empire as a whole, and Corvo's personal loyalty to Empress Jessamine and Lady Emily. Havelock doesn't know that Corvo's got special powers, so he can't formulate plans to counter-act them. Can't defend against something if you don't know it exists.

[ice]

Originally posted by Valden21:

Havelock's not stupid. He became an admiral before Empress Jessamine was assassinated, so he reached that position solely on his competence and intelligence. What spelled his end is that he underestimated Corvo's general loyalty to the Empire as a whole, and Corvo's personal loyalty to Empress Jessamine and Lady Emily. Havelock doesn't know that Corvo's got special powers, so he can't formulate plans to counter-act them. Can't defend against something if you don't know it exists.

if Havelock is smart enough to become admiral he at least knows that the Outsider is in fact a real duder who occasionally blesses people with insane super power. he also has Martin around who 100% knows about the Outsiders influence and knows that Corvo is touched by him

nevermind the fact that Corvo's uncanny ability to turn all his enemies armies into mincement and literal ashes or literally disappear people without anyone ever hearing so much as a breeze from a window being opened is kind of indicative that the dude has some kind of weird special ace up his sleeve, Corvo literally doesn't even hide the mark from anybody, despite not having it the day he showed up to the pub, and mysteriously waking up with it after everyone went to sleep despite there being no tattoo artist seemingly hanging out with the conspiracy, definitely not sus at all, definitely not something Havelock would have noticed with his 'admiral' grade intellect and observation skills

honestly Havelock is just really dumb, or going senile early or something, you can see this with how he tries to attack corvo at the very end of the game in low chaos, where he tries to set the key down in front of you but doesn't immediately attack until you pick it up, even claiming he won't fight.. but then does anyway

[ice]

Originally posted by Lord Of Dorkness:

To be a little fair to Havelock...

The plan ALMOST worked. And it really only failed because the one person he underestimated grew a conscience and then ran like buggery itself was after him.

Besides, people doing stupid ♥♥♥♥ for power? Hardly unrealistic.

it worked because Corvo is weirdly dumb enough to drink poison despite it being really obvious that he shouldn't, he suddenly develops incredibly poor judgement and lack of foresight that Corvo never displays up until that point

if Corvo was really in character he never would have gotten poisoned because he would have just turned down the drink or pretend to have drank it while ditching it when no one was looking

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Lord Of Dorkness:

To be a little fair to Havelock...

The plan ALMOST worked. And it really only failed because the one person he underestimated grew a conscience and then ran like buggery itself was after him.

Besides, people doing stupid ♥♥♥♥ for power? Hardly unrealistic.

This. If he had checked himself to make sure Corvo was dead, it would have worked 100%.

[Valden21]

OP, Havelock DOESN'T know that the Outsider's real. There's only three groups of people who know for sure that the Outsider exists, and Havelock's not in any of them. To him, the Outsider is nothing more than myths and superstitions. Therefore, even if Martin tells him about it, he's not likely to believe it. Furthermore, Havelock NEVER goes on the missions with Corvo. Therefore, he never sees Corvo in action. Havelock knows that Corvo was one of the best soldiers in the Grand Serkonnan Guard since he was 16, and that those skills were what made him the Royal Protector. In addition to that, Corvo became a military officer by winning an annual sword-fighting competition that attracts sword-fighters from across the Empire. Information such as that would have been in his official file, and because Corvo was going to be traveling on one of Havelock's ships just prior to the game's beginning, Havelock would have taken the time to read it. Essentially, Havelock knows about Corvo's fighting skills, but he believes that Corvo's gained them through practice and natural skill. As he doesn't really believe in the Outsider, he has no reason to make any other assumption. Therefore, Havelock's making those mistakes because avoiding said mistakes requires knowledge that he neither has, nor has access to it, nor does he even know that the knowledge exists.

[ice]

Originally posted by Valden21:

OP, Havelock DOESN'T know that the Outsider's real. There's only three groups of people who know for sure that the Outsider exists, and Havelock's not in any of them. To him, the Outsider is nothing more than myths and superstitions. Therefore, even if Martin tells him about it, he's not likely to believe it. Furthermore, Havelock NEVER goes on the missions with Corvo. Therefore, he never sees Corvo in action. Havelock knows that Corvo was one of the best soldiers in the Grand Serkonnan Guard since he was 16, and that those skills were what made him the Royal Protector. In addition to that, Corvo became a military officer by winning an annual sword-fighting competition that attracts sword-fighters from across the Empire. Information such as that would have been in his official file, and because Corvo was going to be traveling on one of Havelock's ships just prior to the game's beginning, Havelock would have taken the time to read it. Essentially, Havelock knows about Corvo's fighting skills, but he believes that Corvo's gained them through practice and natural skill. As he doesn't really believe in the Outsider, he has no reason to make any other assumption. Therefore, Havelock's making those mistakes because avoiding said mistakes requires knowledge that he neither has, nor has access to it, nor does he even know that the knowledge exists.

imagine bending so far back to reach to try to explain a prominent character in the game just being a dumbass

pls don't hurt ur spine

[Valden21]

Ah, another of THOSE threads. Well, in that case, it looks spending any more effort on this would be a waste on my part. OP and I obviously differ in opinions, and nothing I say is gonna change that.

[ice]

you need to have arms made out of elastic to reach so far as to say that havelock doesn't know the outsider is real and doesn't know Corvo has his powers, both dubious guesswork that has more evidence against it than for,nevermore that the general consensus of the regular population of dunwall even outside the overseers is that black magic is legit and the Outsider is definitely real, Havelock even acknowledged in dialog that witches are real

even if you grant it it's clear Corvo is by far the most dangerous man in existence who completely overcame being totally screwed and having everything stacked against him already once, so Havelock must have drank too much sea water during the game while we weren't looking to even consider screwing with him