How do I actually take over England?

[Rikashey]

I'm playing Wessex and made 6 tributary allies including big Mercia yet not once have I been able to go to war for actual land.

All I'm getting is tributary and not subjugation or dejure(?)

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take over England if I can't conquer it.

Can't even become a king because I don't own enough land for the title.

[Crocodylus Pontifex]

Use your chancelor to 'fake' claims on land or use claims of vassals:

1. Search for claimants on the county you want
2. Invite them to your court
3. Grant them some minor holding (so they'll be your vassal)
4. Wage war in their name

And then there is of course the marriage game:

Marry someone with a claim, press that claim, with some luck your heir will inherit both titles. That's how i got Italy as Asturias, made for an early reconquista.

[Rikashey]

Originally posted by Crocodylus Pontifex:

Use your chancelor to 'fake' claims on land or use claims of vassals:

1. Search for claimants on the county you want
2. Invite them to your court
3. Grant them some minor holding (so they'll be your vassal)
4. Wage war in their name

And then there is of course the marriage game:

Marry someone with a claim, press that claim, with some luck your heir will inherit both titles. That's how i got Italy as Asturias, made for an early reconquista.

Wow that sounds horrible.

Other factions can simply declare war and subjugate while there are rare hoops that you have to jump through in order to gain any land whatsoever as an English.

Seems like a very stupid system.

Honestly, what is stopping my character from simply taking over another's land? This game has such ridiculous rules sometimes.

France took over 50% of Europe on turn 3 and I'm still stuck as a petty king with the same old 4 regions and 6 tributary allies.

I defeated my neighbors so I don't understand why I can't take their land. Why do I need to jump through hoops?

[Rikashey]

Originally posted by Crocodylus Pontifex:

2. Invite them to your court

What are you supposed to do if they refuse to come to your court?

[joebrender]

It is Christian Europe, and you need a valid cause for war. Odd that tributary is valid anyway even. Another option is to have your chaplain research culture tech. There's an event that may cause him to embrase a heresy. Join him in it and you can Holy War your neighbors. Of course, they can holy war you.

[Belgian Problem]

I can't remember how during these times in history everyone went crazy and just grabbed land for no reason.

On a more serious note, if you could just "Take land" That would make the game a lot easier, and blobbing would be so easy.

[Langkard]

Remember the time period. The Catholic Church frowned upon officially sanctioned Christian rulers attacking other officially sanctioned Christian rulers without just cause. At the time, rule wasn't simply by inheritance but also by divine right - mostly by divine right, in fact. Rulers were crowned by the Church.

Without the blessing of the Pope, real or fabricated, Christian rulers simply could not invade another Christian ruler without risking excommunication and then the displeasure of their own vassals and clergy. So rulers needed to find reasons to grab land. For Christian rulers in the time periods of this game, it is all about the claims when it comes to aggression against fellow-Christian neighbors.

William the Conqueror didn't simply invade England on a whim. He had family ties to Edward the Confessor, giving him a claim (however slight) to the throne. The Pope sanctioned the invasion after the fact, although William's supporters claimed pre-invasion Papal sanction. The claimed Papal sanction was used to help control the initial spate of rebellions. Likewise, Harald Hardrada's claim at the same time was based upon agreements between his predecessor,Magnus I, and the English king, Harthacanute. Hardrada also had the support of the English king Harold II's exiled brother, Tostig. So claims were the justification for both invasions.

The opening scenes of Shakespeare's Henry V perfectly represent this situation, especially Act I, scene ii, in which the Archbishop of Canterbury details for king Henry the legal justifications for pressing his claims to France under English law as opposed to Salic law.

Is it a royal (pardon the pun) pain in the rear? Yes. But it does a pretty fair job of simulating the difficulties Western European rulers had in expanding their territories which is why the borders there remained relatively stable compared to elsewhere at the time.

[Rikashey]

Originally posted by Rikashey:

Originally posted by Crocodylus Pontifex:

2. Invite them to your court

What are you supposed to do if they refuse to come to your court?

[Nephthys123]

Originally posted by Rikashey:

Originally posted by Crocodylus Pontifex:

2. Invite them to your court

What are you supposed to do if they refuse to come to your court?

Find the right claimants - often second or third sons/brothers, who are unlikely "for their liege to press their claims" will come to your court.

[Surimi]

One easy way to find claimants is to go to the title screen for the title you want to usurp, then go to the claimants tab. It will give you a full list of claimants with a green thumbs up/red thumbs down system to indicate whether or not they will accept an invitation. It doesn't show you the strength of their claim, however.

But yeah, until you obtain enough land to actually form the kingdom of England it is difficult, deliberately so. Christians are not meant to blob out and explode across the map. The Carolingian empire is big because it starts big (it's just split between two brothers who are in line to inheret one another's titles). Indeed, this is one reason why the titular Crusades are so important, because they're a (relatively) easy way of expanding your dynasties holdings.

Muslims have a free conquest CB (which admittedly should have an associated cost, as it does in the far better balanced CK2+) mostly because their options for diplomatic expansion are greatly limited. Pagans are stuck in gavelkind until they reform, meaning they blob out and then implode.. Nomads are.. yeah, nomads are not properly balanced right now, but if you're jhudging a decent rate of expansion by how easy it is to expand as a nomad you're probably getting the wrong idea.

[Rikashey]

So I recruited someone with a Strong Claim to Oxford and all the conditions except one are met.

x Cuthbert is Independent

I don't understand what that means or why it is stopping me.

[Crocodylus Pontifex]

Originally posted by Rikashey:

So I recruited someone with a Strong Claim to Oxford and all the conditions except one are met.

x Cuthbert is Independent

I don't understand what that means or why it is stopping me.

Means the guy who currently holds oxford has a liege lord. Presumably some Duke, you have to declare war on that guy.

[Rene]

The general rule is that you can declare war on independent rulers and on vassalised rulers with the same liege as you.

[identifiedasbeingdisrespectful]

The start is hard as a count or duke. use chancellor to gain claims to single counties up to a duchy title and marry your children into the royal lines of others. Matrilenally when it's your daughters if possible. You can then press the claims of the resulting children and when you press a claim for a dynasty member OR dejure vassal, they become your vassal.

For example: Charlemenge start as oxford can marry into house iceling which has Mercia. They won't marry the first daughter, but will the others usually. From there you can assisante the remaining heirs or wait for their union to produce children that have a weak claim.

When you can press someone's claim and all conditions are met, you get a popup at the top of crossed swords. Make sure you are pressing claims that will become your vassal though, otherwise you are just handing power to someone.

The game is slow, it happens over plans taking multiple generations, not a few months.

[Visi]

Originally posted by Rikashey:

Originally posted by Crocodylus Pontifex:

Use your chancelor to 'fake' claims on land or use claims of vassals:

1. Search for claimants on the county you want
2. Invite them to your court
3. Grant them some minor holding (so they'll be your vassal)
4. Wage war in their name

And then there is of course the marriage game:

Marry someone with a claim, press that claim, with some luck your heir will inherit both titles. That's how i got Italy as Asturias, made for an early reconquista.

Wow that sounds horrible.

Other factions can simply declare war and subjugate while there are rare hoops that you have to jump through in order to gain any land whatsoever as an English.

Seems like a very stupid system.

Honestly, what is stopping my character from simply taking over another's land? This game has such ridiculous rules sometimes.

France took over 50% of Europe on turn 3 and I'm still stuck as a petty king with the same old 4 regions and 6 tributary allies.

I defeated my neighbors so I don't understand why I can't take their land. Why do I need to jump through hoops?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpGJbooFq1c

That's the way things were done under these circumstances during that time period.

[Jormundgand]

How to get land as a catholic ruler:

• Fabricate claims and press them
  
• Invite claimants and make them your vassal
  
• Invite heirs and make them your vassal
  
• Marry into other dynasties to get claims or even inherit titles
  
• Expand into infidel territory and HW them
  
• Become pals with the pope and ask him to sanction an invasion against a target he doesn't like
  
• Marry claimants/heirs into your court and land them -- press any claims you can
  
• Gain a title which has de jure lands outside of your realm
  
• Fight in a crusade
  
• Change religion and HW for more lands -- risk rebellions from your counties and your vassals as well as HW from all your neighbours.

Female claimants can only press their claims when certain conditions are met -- they cannot claim their titles if the current holder is a lord who's fit to rule; i.e. he's not a child and not incapable. There might be some other things which allows you to press the claim though and I'm not sure if the claimant or the claim also needs to satisfy some conditions.

Claims which are not inhertiable needs to be pushed before the claimant dies. As long as there's been a war where the claim was the CB the claim becomes inheritable.