Point of clarification: Duke/Duchess of a completely controlled duchy

[The Right Side Of History]

I'm 90% confident the answer to the question I'm about to ask is "no," so I just want to be sure by asking you veterans.

There is absolutely no point in being a duke/duchess of a duchy wherein all the counties are already part of my personal demesne, is there? In fact, being such a duke/duchess just stupidly contributes to the 'too many held duchies' personal opinion modifier of my vassals, doesn't it?

[Sergent H]

you mean when you have others duke title?

[The Right Side Of History]

I mean I am a duke/duchess of a duchy, but I am also the count/countess of every county in that duchy.

[Sergent H]

you must have your capital duchy as title; why?

- being duke make you able to have vassals (count)
- prestige
- it unlock several law
- income of technologies
- dual duke title give you +1 desmene size

"too many held duchies" is only when you are king or above and have more than two duchies

[sudokek]

You want 100% to own your entire capital dutchy if possible. Directly owning the counties is benificial. If your demesne can hold it, then take as many counties as you can. It will raise your personal levies. I dont think the other guy understood the question, (no offense)

[Sergent H]

Originally posted by sudokek:

You want 100% to own your entire capital dutchy if possible. Directly owning the counties is benificial. If your demesne can hold it, then take as many counties as you can. It will raise your personal levies. I dont think the other guy understood the question, (no offense)

I think it's the opposite; holding the duchy title

[al_x_ator2411]

"Too Many Duchies" negative opinion modifier applies after 2 duchy titles. So you can hold 2 duchies safely. It improves prestige and if you're not a king already it makes you a mega-duke. It would only be bad if you had gavelkind succession.

[sudokek]

Yes, keep the counties. I typically hold 5 dutchies at most, taking a small opinion penalty for it. Hold at least one county in each. Otherwise, holding 3 full dutchies would be ideal in most situations assuming your demesne can maintain it. I'd never grant out a dutchy that was my demesne because they'd have de jure claims on my capital and such.

Regardless of whom is right or wrong, I think the people here by now probably have answered his question.

[The Right Side Of History]

Okay, well... I'm an emperor, and I control all the counties in my capital duchy, but I also hold the duchy title for that duchy.

Now my train of thought is thus: If I already control all the counties in my capital duchy, then there's really no point in holding the duchy title as well. It's nothing more than a puppet title at that point. So I could destroy the duchy title of my capital duchy, suffer no opinion penalty, and free myself up to control another duchy with four vassal counts reporting to me.

Does that sound right?

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Goth Skunk:

Okay, well... I'm an emperor, and I control all the counties in my capital duchy, but I also hold the duchy title for that duchy.

Now my train of thought is thus: If I already control all the counties in my capital duchy, then there's really no point in holding the duchy title as well. It's nothing more than a puppet title at that point. So I could destroy the duchy title of my capital duchy, suffer no opinion penalty, and free myself up to control another duchy with four vassal counts reporting to me.

Does that sound right?

Yeah, but you get prestige for having the title too. Don't forget that you'll bump up against the vassal limit at some point, so having those extra count vassals won't be much of a positive; it'll be better to have 4 dukes than 4 counts, for example.

[Sergent H]

it's useless to hold duchies titles, outside the ones you hold counties; it's more effective to create duke vassal than have 4 count vassals

[The Right Side Of History]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Yeah, but you get prestige for having the title too. Don't forget that you'll bump up against the vassal limit at some point, so having those extra count vassals won't be much of a positive; it'll be better to have 4 dukes than 4 counts, for example.

So it's better to hand off a duchy to a vassal duke as opposed to being the duke myself with 4 vassal counts reporting to me directly?

[Sergent H]

yes. Remember that each direct vassal can join a faction. When you create a duke vassal; you reduce your number of direct vassal which can join faction.
It's also to improve opinions of one person (duke) than four persons (count)

There is also the vassal limit. As emperor you can have 25(?) direct vassals; only in the Kingdom of France there is 32 counties. If you hold personnally 10 of them, you would have 22 count vassals... In the whole Empire there is 93 counties; you imagine easily you have to create dukes to manage it. If you want to expand further, you will have maybe to create king vassals.

[The Right Side Of History]

Yeah, as the Emperor of Britain right now, I'm right at both my Demesne and my Vassal limit. I hold the Emperor title, all four kingdom titles, 1 duchy, and 7 counties.

But as I have no desire to expand further, I'm keeping all of them.

[Sergent H]

If you don't want to expand further; it's not necessary to hold the kingdom titles, you can destroy it.
As emperor, all your vassal in a kingdom will have a malus opinion "-20 desire kingdom of X" ; you can resolbe it by destroying it since you have an Empire title. Don't forget you get -40 opinion fo1 10 years when you destroy a titles.

You can create your secondary duchy titles where there is your counties for yourself. If you hold a duchy title where there is count vassal (like Wessex duchy when you have count of wessex as vassal) you also get the "-20 desire duchy of X"

All counts want the duchy title if it exist if you hold it
All duke want the kingdom title if it exist if you hold it (except when you are monoking)
All king want the empire title if it exist if you hold it (except when you are monoempeor)