Is it just me or is the homosexual trait popping up way too much?

[Sims]

Is it just me or is the homosexual trait popping up way too much? Just saying, I'm ending up with way too many homosexuals, and I swear to god if I end up finally getting Immortal and it ends up being on a homosexual i'm going to kill myself lol.

[Rajiin Terra]

Always figured the 'homosexual' trait was similar to how people percieved Edward the 2nd, or other effeminant types, no real evidence but it's suspected which is why it isn't to grossly harsh on the in-game characters for having the trait.

Anywhom, It really is random on how often it wants to rear its head, though it has steadily increased in how often it appears over the course of ck2 mainly because of all the evnt and event lines thathave chances to give that trait. Each even individually dosen't equal much, but because of how many there are now (And this goes for nearly all traits) it happens a lot more often then it used too.

That all being said, I don't think it's much of an a issue if I see a flaming homosexual Fylkir conquring half the known world, CK2 weirdness is practically half the game. xD

[Sims]

Yeah but it's annoying when I have a play through and my ruler is stuck as a homosexual then I die become my heir and guess what? he's also a homosexual lol.

[ChristopherMino]

Its not a bad trait though. They still do their duty trying for a heir and the little malus can be offset with the family focus so eh.

[Sims]

Yeah but even without the seduction focus my ruler wants to randomly seduce guys lol it's ridiculous

[Ambler]

Originally posted by erik_von_reitz:

It's inclusion in the game is not historical. For the trait to have a negative factor would mean that it is a known fact of the character... well, during the period represented homosexuals would be tortured or outright killed in most areas of the map. Thus true homosexuals would hide such a lifestyle and if such a trait was discovered it would be like excommunication; giving any leige the ability to imprison, torture, and execute the individual without penalty. But of course, the politically correct Swedes who created the game will overlook historical facts for social justice nuance.

This isn't quite true. Numerous English monarchs had fairly open gay relationships that were the source of rumours and a factor in unrest among the nobility or vassals etc... thus it was a negative without leading to their torture or execution (although it could happen to their lovers). The sexuality of the English kings is much debated among historians - James I is a well known example. The homosexual trait in the game is certainly simplistic, but it isn't ahistorical.

[Khorps]

Originally posted by Ambler:

Originally posted by erik_von_reitz:

It's inclusion in the game is not historical. For the trait to have a negative factor would mean that it is a known fact of the character... well, during the period represented homosexuals would be tortured or outright killed in most areas of the map. Thus true homosexuals would hide such a lifestyle and if such a trait was discovered it would be like excommunication; giving any leige the ability to imprison, torture, and execute the individual without penalty. But of course, the politically correct Swedes who created the game will overlook historical facts for social justice nuance.

This isn't quite true. Numerous English monarchs had fairly open gay relationships that were the source of rumours and a factor in unrest among the nobility or vassals etc... thus it was a negative without leading to their torture or execution (although it could happen to their lovers). The sexuality of the English kings is much debated among historians - James I is a well known example. The homosexual trait in the game is certainly simplistic, but it isn't ahistorical.

but that's the English monarch, he's talking about the people not at the very top, the lower vassals and the citizens

[phthalyl]

I've never seen the trait before.

It's just a video game. It doesn't really make you gay.

[No Name]

remove_trait

[Fulgent]

Originally posted by erik_von_reitz:

It's inclusion in the game is not historical. For the trait to have a negative factor would mean that it is a known fact of the character... well, during the period represented homosexuals would be tortured or outright killed in most areas of the map. Thus true homosexuals would hide such a lifestyle and if such a trait was discovered it would be like excommunication; giving any leige the ability to imprison, torture, and execute the individual without penalty. But of course, the politically correct Swedes who created the game will overlook historical facts for social justice nuance.

Well however you look at it there was homosexuals in that period whether they identified as such or not. And yes they would obviously hide it but still act on their urges, its not inaccurate at all to say gay people seduced each other and etc. Many people were given the death penalty for this but it still happened. And also the punishment varied a ton.

[al_x_ator2411]

As a last note I'd like to state that I have come across countless threads like this (in fact they're almost as numerous as the "what is the best DLC" threads). And the number of threads just shows that of all the weird/ahistorical/silly stuff in CKII this is the issue that bothers the most people. Which is just sad.

[Fulgent]

Originally posted by al_x_ator2411:

As a last note I'd like to state that I have come across countless threads like this (in fact they're almost as numerous as the "what is the best DLC" threads). And the number of threads just shows that of all the weird/ahistorical/silly stuff in CKII this is the issue that bothers the most people. Which is just sad.

Its because of the whole "anti-pc" or "anti-sjwism" notion, which has people who just twine about "forced diversity" and umg oh no feminism.

[Jukelo]

Originally posted by erik_von_reitz:

It's inclusion in the game is not historical. For the trait to have a negative factor would mean that it is a known fact of the character... well, during the period represented homosexuals would be tortured or outright killed in most areas of the map. Thus true homosexuals would hide such a lifestyle and if such a trait was discovered it would be like excommunication; giving any leige the ability to imprison, torture, and execute the individual without penalty. But of course, the politically correct Swedes who created the game will overlook historical facts for social justice nuance.

You are grossly over-simplifying things, please do read more books.

In many respects CK2 is a game way too broad for its own good, at least if one is worried about historical accuracy. Have a look at such a central concept for the game like the feudal contract in western europe. Even a cursory read of Bloch's Feudal Society will quickly make you realize CK2's depiction of it is not only criminally simplistic, but also criminally static in both time and space. The rights and duties of the carolingian knight to his lord were quite different from those of the french knight in the 12th century... and yet in the game the same mechanics, with minimum variations, are also supposed to depict the relation between muslim rulers and their subjects in bloody Persia.

In the same vein, the game uses the same trait and mechanics to deal with homosexuals, whose status varried significantly not just across the world but over time. Early chrisitan Europe paid, in practice, little attention to homosexuals: sodomoy (that is, non-reproductive sex, whether homosexual or not) was a sin, but one that wasn't usually harshly punished. The early Church didn't have the power to go against the relatively lenient latin views on sex ingrained in much of western society, and what reasons did the local bishops, who really held the spiritual (and often secular) power, have to go after it?
You would need to wait until the later half of the time period covered by CK2 to see the kind of widespread persecution of sodomy in general and male homosexuality in particular you mentionned in your post, after the Gregorian reform and once the Church had consolidated its independence and could impose its will to local rulers.

Homosexuals from 13th century western europe certainly didn't live the same life as 4 centuries before, and yet the same mechanics are at work. Is it because Paradox are "politically correct Swedes", or is it because CK2 is meant to be an accessible game which often sacrifices historical accuracy for the sake of simplicity, consistency and playability?

[kazaddum]

Originally posted by Khorps:

Originally posted by Ambler:

This isn't quite true. Numerous English monarchs had fairly open gay relationships that were the source of rumours and a factor in unrest among the nobility or vassals etc... thus it was a negative without leading to their torture or execution (although it could happen to their lovers). The sexuality of the English kings is much debated among historians - James I is a well known example. The homosexual trait in the game is certainly simplistic, but it isn't ahistorical.

but that's the English monarch, he's talking about the people not at the very top, the lower vassals and the citizens

The citizens and lower vassals do not even show up in the game...
Ingame every vassal is at least a baron.

[Sims]

Originally posted by Khorps:

Originally posted by Oddyseous:

Lol well fact is nothing said here is going to change the fact the trait is popping up way too much.

perhaps. but you know bad government was often associated by the romans with sexual degeneracy, they may have a point so maybe you just need to fix your government

Are you saying i'm running my nation badly so men are deciding to take it up the rear? And me governing better will fix other men from wanting to do the same?