Flashbangs and Needles: Yes or No?

[Demonbreather]

I've tried them on a couple rare occasions, but never really adopted them into my strategy. After having a run of failed Marathon starts recently, I'm thinking about giving one or both of them another shot.

Any suggestions for these grenades that might make them more useful than I think they are?

[Yow!]

I don't have ew, but as i understand they are an option for early game, i think granades lose reliability due to low range and increased threats with more powerful aliens being field, if there is a gene mod for increased toss range, things could get minimaly interesting.

Flashbang is a good alternative to overwatch or suppression.

Needles looks interesting, you can prevent the loss of weapon fragments, say 25% of your granade tossing is about outright killing aliens, instead of damaging and destroying cover to increase hit % with other soldiers.

I don't have ew, or even finished an impossible run yet, i have screwed a c/i with greater good (the one that you have to interrogate a psi enemy to unlock psionics) second wave option, and had to restart it.

[EarballsIsLeavingTonightByeBye]

Flashbangs can be useful, mostly early game but also against Muton Elites. However they're really for whne you find yourself flanked or otherwise desperate not to get hit, situations you shouldn't be getting in anyway. Otherwise normal frag/alien grenades are far better.

Needle grenades are even more situational. As thiagov said above, you can use them in place of normal grenades to get more weapon fragments, but that's only very early game against sectoids. Any other enemy will not be killed outright by a needle grenade, requiring something else to finish them off. And in that acse, why not just use a normal ggrenade to blow their cover and kill them with something else?

[veneficus]

Originally posted by HrothgarTheGloriousPeasant:

Flashbangs can be useful, mostly early game but also against Muton Elites. However they're really for whne you find yourself flanked or otherwise desperate not to get hit, situations you shouldn't be getting in anyway. Otherwise normal frag/alien grenades are far better.

Needle grenades are even more situational. As thiagov said above, you can use them in place of normal grenades to get more weapon fragments, but that's only very early game against sectoids. Any other enemy will not be killed outright by a needle grenade, requiring something else to finish them off. And in that acse, why not just use a normal ggrenade to blow their cover and kill them with something else?

Agree with this. I don't use frags to kill aliens on purpose, I use them to soften up enemies so direct fire weapons can take them down. I also use them as basically "demo charges" to make holes instead of going through doors, especially in UFOs.

Anytime there are 3 or more enemies in a close group, they are catching a rocket, not a grenade.

I have had a couple of situations where I would basically use grenades as bombs when I knew an alien (sectopod) was beneath my troops with no line of sight, but that is very situational.

Destroying cover and knocking off a few healthpoints sets up an in the zone sniper.Why would you want to use a needle for that?

The best I have done with needles is to not destroy cover and soften up aliens for an arc thrower, flashbangs don't seem to work as well.

[K. the Land-Surveyor]

Flashbangs save lives.

Needle Grenades shine the most when you're fighting inside a UFO and don't want to destroy components. A MEC's Collateral Damage can allow for more precise cover destruction, and Needle Grenades can do a decent job softening up a lot of enemies since it has a larger blast radius.

[veneficus]

Didn't think about needles to save ufo components. Good call.

[PRIPYAT RESIDENT]

Flashbangs are ideal for terror missions. They really mess up the chryssalids, they just run around in circles, and cuts their mobility in half. Excellent for crippling tight packs of enemies since their aim penalty is so high, your chances of surviving a situation when you need to buy some extra time.

[Proteus]

I never used Needles ...
but Flashbangs I occasionally use ... especially if I want to go in and stun aliens instead of killing them (the Flashbang buys me a precious turn in which I can finetune my damage to the aliens (by using weapons like Pistols), so that they only have 1-3 Hitpoints left and can be stunned with a high probability afterwards)

[Twelvefield]

So what about gas grenades? Has anybody used those? I've been thinking you could use them like smoke (but on the X-Rays, of course), to provide zones of denial and create choke points. Or do the X-Rays run through the posion gas without caring about it?

I am reluctant to experiment with grenades because they work so well to begin with: why fix what isn't broken?

[Sir Tapkomet of Canterlot]

I take a flashbang on any mission where I intend to capture an alien. -50 aim and you can stand right in front of him and not get hit. And the alien can't escape. Just make sure it's not a psionic.
Especially if you cover the place with dense smoke. The alien gets -90 aim, and smoke doesn't affect Arc Thrower.

[TLSMFH]

Flashbangs are very situational, you'll probably only need one. Can help with capturing aliens safely.
Needles are helpful when you need to clear enemies in a UFO crash. Preserving computes and power sources is important when transitioning to Firestorms. Otherwise, they're not incredibly helpful. Frag/Alien Grenades are better in every other situation, since destroying cover is generally the thing you want to do.
On this note, I find that Ghost Grenades are also not that necessary, though I may be proven wrong. Mimic Beacons are useful for baiting movement into proximity mines or overwatch camps.

[Yow!]

They dont seem to care about thin mans poison, why would they care about xcom poison? xD

[K. the Land-Surveyor]

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

So what about gas grenades? Has anybody used those? I've been thinking you could use them like smoke (but on the X-Rays, of course), to provide zones of denial and create choke points. Or do the X-Rays run through the posion gas without caring about it?

I am reluctant to experiment with grenades because they work so well to begin with: why fix what isn't broken?

I've never used them, and I don't really see the point as much as I'd like to. If poison was more reliable (Like, if it was guaranteed to stay for 3 turns) I might be tempted to use it as a less effective, longer lasting flashbang, but as it stands, bring a grenade if you want to do damage and a flashbang if you want to decrease their aim.

[achus93]

Originally posted by Twitchblade:

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

So what about gas grenades? Has anybody used those? I've been thinking you could use them like smoke (but on the X-Rays, of course), to provide zones of denial and create choke points. Or do the X-Rays run through the posion gas without caring about it?

I am reluctant to experiment with grenades because they work so well to begin with: why fix what isn't broken?

I've never used them, and I don't really see the point as much as I'd like to. If poison was more reliable (Like, if it was guaranteed to stay for 3 turns) I might be tempted to use it as a less effective, longer lasting flashbang, but as it stands, bring a grenade if you want to do damage and a flashbang if you want to decrease their aim.

i'm guessing poison was supposed to be mix of both.

[skiddlywibble]

Originally posted by veneficus:

Agree with this. I don't use frags to kill aliens on purpose, I use them to soften up enemies so direct fire weapons can take them down. I also use them as basically "demo charges" to make holes instead of going through doors, especially in UFOs.

Grenades are pretty ineffective when used one at a time, but if you use a couple of them then you can get some decent, reliable damage. Grenades are one of the few things in the game that never miss, and if you bring a lot of them (grenadier + harness allows each heavy to take four) they make a great safety net.

[Demonbreather]

This run is turning out to be very experimental for me, as far as troop skills, and I expect loadouts will be abnormal as well since I'm trying a nonstandard research path (for me). This is my first Marathon run, BTW, so yeah, I'm having to change up my routine quite a bit! So, thanks for all the quick responses! I'm just gonna leave a couple acknowledgements for some of the suggestions after I read through.

Originally posted by thiagovdandrade:

Flashbang is a good alternative to overwatch or suppression.

Originally posted by jaygoneferal:

Flashbangs are ideal for terror missions. They really mess up the chryssalids, they just run around in circles, and cuts their mobility in half.

Originally posted by Proteus:

...the Flashbang buys me a precious turn in which I can finetune my damage to the aliens...

Great food for thought since I'm also using The Greater Good. I'll need every advantage to get that first psi alien. And since I seem cursed with the Suppression bug, Flashbangs will have to be my workaround.

Originally posted by Twitchblade:

Needle Grenades shine the most when you're fighting inside a UFO and don't want to destroy components.

Very good call. Might consider just using them on crash sites and landings.

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

So what about gas grenades?

When I tried them out, they seemed to deter sectoids, and if the little guys /do/ run through the cloud, they're dead soon after which is nice when they panic and run. Of course thin men are immune so there's no point in wasting one on them. I never bothered to use them against mutons and beyond since the minimal damage would be negligible. One thing I never considered was the possibility that the gas also lowers enemy aim like it does for your troops. If that /is/ the case, then that would be the main tactical purpose for them as far as I'm concerned. Need verification on that though.

Originally posted by mittens:

...I find that Ghost Grenades are also not that necessary, though I may be proven wrong. Mimic Beacons are useful for baiting movement into proximity mines or overwatch camps.

Good points on all counts, mittens, but I gotta say, Ghost Grenades are my favorite piece of mid- to end-game gear, hands down. In my experience, a troop with Deep Pockets + Grenadier and 1 or 2 Ghost Grenades (3 or 6, then) can bring a failing mission back from the brink of disaster. Or better yet, you can ensure that your entire squad never gets shot at a single time. Never tried beacons or mines. I'll have to give that a shot.

Alright. Thanks so much for the tips, everyone. I really appreciate it.