When do you get the alloy cannon?

[Noble Sir]

Hey all!

I was just wondering at what point you get the alloy cannon in vanilla Xcom: enemy unknown.

I do have the expansion as well, but when you launch xcom you can play either the vanilla or EW. I'v only played the vanilla so far. (You all probably know this. I was just making sure you all knew the exact situation.)

Being new to TBS games, I'm playing on the lowest difficulty with none of the extra second wave options. No iron man either. (very much a noob here)

Last note: I have both the heavy plasma and plasma rifle techs researched. So technically I should have the research available right? I read somewhere that with the expansion you have to play on classic or harder to get the alloy cannon. But I'm playing vanilla so that shouldn't be a problem right?

[realartfo]

the alloy cannon is one of the last things you unlock. I don't quite remember how, but it's pretty much the last thing you research

[Noble Sir]

Thanks man!

Oh yeah! I'm at the part where you need a guy to operate the psy orb thing. not sure if that's
late enough.

[realartfo]

you're pretty close. just remember that if you want to make the alloy cannon, do it BEFORE activating the orb

[KT Chong]

You need to research Plasma Rifle to unlock the research option for Alloy Cannon. There are two ways to unlock the Plasma Rifle option:

1. The research tree for Alloy Cannon is: Weapon Fragments + salvaged Plasma Pistol -> Light Plasma Rifle -> Plasma Rifle -> Alloy Cannon

You will need to salvage a Plasma Pistol from capturing a live alien to start the Plasma research tree.

2. The better alternative: if you salvage a Plasma Rifle from capturing a live alien, the Plasma Rifle research option will become available. Research Plasma Rifle to unlock the Alloy Cannon research option. Then research Alloy Cannon for production. The earliest time you can capture a Plasma Rifle is from Mutons in the second or third Slingshot missions.

You will not be able to capture Alloy Cannon from aliens, (i.e., aliens do not have Alloy Cannon) So you can go ahead and build Alloy Cannon yourself, (i.e., it is cheaper to capture weapons - especially plasma weapons - from aliens than to manufacture them yourself. However, Alloy Cannon and Plasma Sniper Rifles are not available for capture.)

However, after you research Plasma Rifle, (which unlocks the research options for Alloy Cannon, Heavy Plasma, Plasma Sniper, and Plasma Cannon,) you really should research Heavy Plasma before everything else. Heavy Plasma further unlocks Particle Cannon for MEC troopers and SHIV Plasma for SHIV. If you have a MEC trooper, Particle Cannon is far superior than Alloy Cannon.

Furthermore, Alloy Cannon, Plasma Sniper and Plasma Cannon are the ends of the weapon research tree. They do not unlock anything else, so you should save them for last. Your Assault soldiers will manage with Light Plasma Rifle, Plasma Rifle or Laser weapons (which are cheap to manufacture and can be captured from EXALT Elite soliders.) IMO, from a logistic and tactical standpoint, it would be better to hold off on researching Alloy Cannon and prioritize the more powerful Particle Cannon, the more needed Heavy Plasma (that can't be salvaged until much later in the game, so you will have to manufacture one or two yourself,) and the more useful SHIV Plasma (that improves your SHIV's firepower and Aim.) All three become available with the Heavy Plasma research. Heavy Plasma and Particle Cannon are unlocked for manufacturing with the Heavy Plasma research. SHIV Plasma is unlocked for research in the Foundry.

As for Plasma Cannon (for ships,) just skip it and go for EMP Cannon or Fusion Cannon.

[Noble Sir]

Thanks to both of you!

And this brings me to another question.....Is it a good idea to invest in shivs? I haven't even got MEC troopers yet. How do they compare to you regular troops?

[KT Chong]

SHIV is useful for grabbing Melds and "triggering hot spots" in general.

Every meld container has a countdown self-destruct mechanism. You have to reach it in a limited number of turns before it is destroyed. Which means you really have to push and rush your soldiers to search for and grab the meld containers before they expire. Which can endanger your human soldiers (including MEC troopers.)

Grabbing Melds is the ideal task for SHIV. A SHIV has more movement points than a regular human soldiers do, so they can travel faster and further. A SHIV also has a passive defense bonus, so it is hard to shoot and hit even when it is out in the open. Alloy SHIV, which has more HP than a regular SHIV, is especially useful for grabbing Melds. Hover SHIV, which has the SHIV passive defense PLUS flight defense, is also impossible to hit; Hover is especially for scouting. Any of the three SHIV variant can grab SHIV.

SHIV can also disable a bomb, (which has, of course, a countdown timer,) activate beacons (which is useful for a particular "Recon Mission",) and interact with object in general. In general, you want to send in SHIV for scouting and high-risk duty.

If you have a Sniper with the Low Profile ability (which treats half-cover as full-cover) and the Mimetic Skin gene-mod (i.e., invisibility when in full-cover,) then Alloy SHIV (which can provide half-cover for soldiers) is useful for the Sniper to activate the invisibility at every turn.

SHIV suppression is also great for capturing aliens. You can move an Alloy SHIV into a dangerously close spot to suppress an alien, which you do not want to do with a human soldier; and then move a soldier to right behind that Alloy SHIV as a cover. Then you move in the soldier next turn to stun the alien. Sometimes I deploy two SHIV: an alloy and a hover. They take turn to supress an alien that I really want to capture.

It is a good idea to have two Alloy SHIVs and at least one Hover SHIV in your barrack. Alloy SHIVs get shot a lot, so you need one as a backup when the other one is in repair. Hover SHIVs seem to be very good at dodging shots so they are hardly ever damaged. Personally, I always ended up with three Alloy SHIVs and two Hover SHIVs in my games, (although I had never actually got to use the third Alloy SHIV and second Hover SHIV.)

In late game, when you have a lot of high-level soldiers and Colonels, SHIVs become less useful. However, IMO they are essential in early-to-mid game. The only downside to SHIV is that they do not level up and they take away kills and experiences from soldiers.

[....]

SHIVs will be more useful if you play Enemy Within or the Long War Mod (definitely suggest it). Because the game gets a bit harder and you want to preserve your troops.

They are also generally just really good scouts.

[Stardustfire]

On Easy u dont really need MECs, on c/i and i/i i dont want to miss them anymore, they make the start much easyer (if u take the right class for MEC Pilot that is, means Heavy, or if u cant get one with good stats (i Play with SW Options NcE+HP), an assault)

[KT Chong]

Ultimately, playing game is about having fun. MEC troopers = fun, fun, fun. Sure, MEC troopers are overpower and overkill, but they are sure a hell lot of fun to play. They are fun to own. They are fun to upgrade. They are fun to play. Their animations (especially kill animations) are fun to watch. They sounds -- their boom-boom-boom walking sounds and their various unique weapon-firing sounds -- are fun to listen. Most players would say their rocket-boosted fist-punch and flamethrower are the highlights and funnest parts of the whole game. They are overall just a good fun. Everyone who plays XCOM should play and experience MEC troopers at least once.

That is what playing games is all about: having fun. I'd say that, for me, those MEC troopers were the funnest of the game. They are way more fun than all regular classes, SHIV, and gene-modded soldiers. That is why the OP, who is playing the game for the first time, should definitely get them.

[eavatar]

the Alloy Cannon is one of the best game weapons. It is a shame you get it too close to the end

[KT Chong]

All of the level-3 weapons are powerful: Alloy Cannon, Heavy Plasma, Plasma Sniper, Particle Cannon, and Blaster Rocket. After unlocking Plasma Rifle, you can research one other plasma weapon at a time. Whenever you decide to research one plasma weapon, you are forgoing and delaying the other plasma weapons. So each one has an opportunity cost. So how do you prioritize the end-game plasma weapon research?

As powerful as Alloy Cannon is, the Assault class has two other level-3 rifles: the Plasma Rifle and the Light Plasma Rifle. Both are level-3 weapons. Both are fairly powerful. Both can carry an Assault to the end. An Alloy Cannon is nice to have, but it is not essential for an Assault because an Assault has two other "substitutes", other "options"

On the other hand, the Heavy class has one level-3 rifle: the Heavy Plasma. That is it. The Heavy has nothing else. A Heavy cannot use a Plasma Rifle nor a Light Plasma Rifle. So, without a Heavy Plasma, a Heavy is stuck with a level-1 or level-2 rifile. (The Heavy has another level-3 weapon, the Blaster Rocket; but that is a rocket, not a rifle.)

The Support class shares the same two level-3 rifles with Assault: the Plasma Rifle and the Light Plasma Rifle. However, a Support cannot use an Alloy Cannon.

Like the Heavy, the Sniper class has one level-3 rifle: Plasma Sniper. That is it. Nothing else. BTW, the Plasma Sniper is actually more powerful than Alloy Cannon.

The MEC Trooper has one level-3 rifle: Particle Cannon. That is it. Nothing else. The Particle Cannon is also much more powerful than Alloy Cannon.

When prioritizing research, you have to think tactically and logistically: which weapon would benefit you the most? Which one has the less opportunity cost? Which one has no substitute?

Because Assault has other "substitutes", other "options", while the other three classes do not, IMO you should prioritize Heavy Plasma, Plasma Sniper and Particle Cannon over Alloy Cannon.

Just let your Assault use a Plasma Rifle or Light Plasma Rifle. Both are level-3 weapon anyway. Plasma Rifles and Light Plasma Rifles are plentiful and easy to come by, (i.e., you can recover them from aliens.) Your Assaults really do not need an Alloy Cannon right away. Plasma Rifles and Light Plasma Rifles will carry your Assaults far enough.

On the other hand, your Heavies, Snipers and MEC Troopers cannot use a Plasma Rifle or Light Plasma Rifle. You want to give everyone level-3 plasma weapons ASAP. That is why you want to research Heavy Plasma, Plasma Sniper and Particle Cannon ASAP. The best thing is: Heavy Plasma and Particle Cannon are unlocked with the same research! So when you research Heavy Plasma first, you will unlock the end-game plasma weapons for both the Heavy and MEC Trooper, (as well as SHIV, whose plasma weapon is also unlocked by Heavy Plasma research.) It is a no-brainer: you research Heavy Plasma BEFORE Alloy Cannon and Plasma Sniper, to receive the most benefits. (Unless you have ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of Assaults and/or Snipers and very few or no Heavies, MECs and/or SHIVs.)

After unlocking Heavy Plasma/Particle Cannon/SHIV Plasma, the next plasma research should be Plasma Sniper BEFORE Alloy Cannon. Your Assaults are using the level-3 Plasma Rifles/Light Plasma Rifles. They will do fine. On the other hand, you want to upgrade your Snipers from the level-2 weapon to level-3, and Snipers can't use Plasma Rifle or Light Plasma Rifles.

Therefore, the research for end-game weapons order should be:

Heavy Plasma/Particle Cannon/SHIV Cannon/Plasma Cannon (all four unlocked by Heavy Plasma research) > Plasma Sniper > Alloy Cannon (does not unlock anything else)

[red255]

Originally posted by ktchong:

Therefore, the research for end-game weapons order should be:

Heavy Plasma/Particle Cannon/SHIV Cannon/Plasma Cannon (all four unlocked by Heavy Plasma research) > Plasma Sniper > Alloy Cannon (does not unlock anything else)

No i disagree. You can take down anything short of a battleship with lasers.

Heavies don't need a weapon upgrade, neither do MECs, and SHIVs...can certainly wait.

Plasma sniper is first because plasma gets speed bonuses from muton elites (autospy and interrogation) alloy cannon is second. Heavy is later whenever i get the fragments.

but heavies can't hit s*** and use their rockets. Mecs use their kinetic strike module and collateral damage. OH now its 3 damage! and shiv's use .... well they are just for scouting and such. the SHIV upgrade here is the most good of them because it works on all of them and gives an aim and damage bonus. but people don't really use SHIVs that much apparently.

it sorta depends on what you are using. but I use the sniper rifle ALOT and shotguns ALOT, so yeah.

can kill a beserker with an assault with a laser so more for the sniper than anything else. and Less for the heavy.

unless you play very different than I do.

[Noble Sir]

First off, Thanks for all your tips everybody!

I understand everybody's points, and both are viable. depends on how you want to play I suppose. I'ma try them both out. Especially seeing as both red and ktchong have 700 and 800 hrs of game time.

This has all been very helpful and interesting. How'bout I start a steam group where everybody can discuss strategy, loadouts, skill trees, and everything about Xcom in general!
For noobs like me, that would be invaluable.

I'll give everybody here an invite.

[KT Chong]

Just so you know: you will not have enough weapon fragments to research Heavy Plasma, Plasma Sniper and Alloy Cannon, immediately one after another. All three require a lot of weapon fragments for research. Heavy Plasma and Alloy Cannon require 40 fragments each. Plasma Sniper requires 50. Their prerequisites Plasma Rifle require another 40. Which means after you research one, your scientists will most likely have to stop working for weeks before you will be able to collect enough weapon fragment to research the next plasma weapons.

[Stardustfire]

err MrPat kchong NEVER ended a game it looks like with his many play hours and red never finished an Impossible Game, so playtime is not all.....