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Fixed that for you. The point of LW classes is that each soldier can do less things overall, but does one thing slightly better than the vanilla class he only has half the skillset of.
Engineers are the "smoke" support build, but expanded into damaging grenades. Half a vanilla class + a little bit extra.
Lets take just the engineer for a moment.
They are a support class so yes they don't bring that much shooting skill to the table but is really no worse than a medic was in vanilla.
They do bring the smoke grenade option
They do bring better use of your utility items like Arc Thrower.
They can be nasty with grenades if focused that way.
They support other classes at being better at what they do Holo Targeting, supression, Battlescanner.
The sub-classes are specialists, as mentioned. A Rocketeer is better with rockets than a rocket-focused Heavy. A Gunner is a better support gunner than a machine gun-focused Heavy. Rocketeer is not my favorite class, but then Heavies weren't my favorite class either. On the flip side, I love Gunners. Rocketeers are your mass-damage guys, good for taking down large sections of cover, and putting a beatdown (or a shred) on a cluster of enemies. They're a little unreliable and dangerous, which is why I don't prefer them, but I've had Rocketeers be the difference between mission failure and success more than a few times. Gunners, like I said, I love. I tend to play LMG gunners, who stay near the back and lay out the pain. They're also excellent at suppression and debuffs, making them a great support class as well.
Infantry vs Assault: I always played my Vanilla Assaults as run-and-gun close combat guys. Infantry becomes the mid-range generalist, where previously I only had Supports and Heavies in the mid-range, neither of which really excels there.
Medic vs Engineer: I don't play with Engies much, but I almost never made Support into support guys, always healers. I play with Engies more often than I played with Smoke/Suppression Supports, because they're pretty good for battlefield shaping and oh-♥♥♥♥ moments.
Sniper vs Scout: Snipers are pretty much the same as they were, role-wise; Long range damage specialists. Scouts, despite their fragility, I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ love. They're highly mobile and depending on how you kit them, they're good in the short, medium and long ranges. I actually use them as Scouts, usually the first to move forward, whereas a lot of people tend to not do so because they're pretty fragile.
Im sure if they organized their reasonning about why they didnt like Long War and made some good posts on Long War pages they would be ignored.
Afterall a mod author creates his mod to his vision. It happens to be my opinion that LW is way overly tuned to be difficult which doesnt always translate to fun.
That said I'll say some problems with LW.
Enemy Scaling gets out of control.
Many many many boss units to the point that all units are basically elite later in the game.
Railroaded tech game, basically a specific path must be followed or you fall behind in the airwar.
More than 1/2 your units are considered support even the 8 class mechs.
Mech's just dont kick enough butt for the cost.
Its difficult to field good damage dealers due to that alone but there is also fatigue time involved and this is increased due to leadership, powers, mech, and/or anything specail add more fatigue time.
I've had roosters of 80 and still had issues putting together teams to handle missions.
Wonky random value stats....Not worth it.
Get mad about aliens with good aim, its worse in LW.
Get mad about having to figure out how to kill off 6-8 aliens in a round? In LW that's a small engagement your going to have to be able to manage many more than that in 1 round.
Mod is basically unfinished and its more balanced for players that demand play at high levels which honestly is just exhausting and sometimes brutally punishing or demands save scumming.
Why play?
There's still a lot of nifty idea's like new items, more maps, more time spent playing than a typical playthrough, and such.
Thing is I have not finished a LW game, I get tired of it and especailly get tired of so many hard counters happening in the tactical map. Whoever thought putting Lighting Reflexes on Chr's was just nutty but it doesnt end there.
Oh look. Ad hominem. Cute.
Alright then, let`s go through this...
So far, I agree. Half a vanilla class + extra.
With the minor caveat that, to reliably do this, you need to set them up for a turn until they hit the higher levels and you get them higher tier RLs. That`s... kinda useless in most engagement. If I wanted to just throw the dice I`d play Talisman.
Even if you get the setup, the way LW handles explosive damage and cover destruction makes them subpar at dealing damage and removing cover. They`re okay at shredding, but shredding is just not that useful; the big targets you want it for are often alone, so a Gunner can do the job and deal more damage, and the weenies don`t need it.
Fixed.
So have I. WHEN I GOT LUCKY WITH THE SCATTER.
Yeah, Gunners are pretty great, both with LMGs and SAWs.
No real argument here. Although I often use high Aim assaults with rifles on TR games in vanilla, basically LW infantry. Infantry nicks the heavies bullet swarm though, and LW assaults get a little extra punch compared to vanilla. Half of the vanilla class + extra bit here.
Like I said earlier, the Engineer is similar to a smoke build Support, with some added shaping and baking via offensive grenades. The arc thrower thing is also expected, because Supports made the best AT users. Thus the Medic remains with heals and the almost useless overwatch Support build, as well as retaining some support grenade affinity, although they increased that in b15. 0.5 Vanilla classes + extra once again.
Yeah, snipers are the same as ever as they didn`t really have much of a second part to them, unless you count that fake assault flanking specialist thing Taco likes. Which is what Scouts do now. The Sniper becomes slightly more snipery while the Scout is essentially the same thing as a snapsniper assasin assault wannabe, only with a little more assault in there. Half a vanilla class + extra again... kinda, as I don`t really consider the long range assault thing a viable sniper build.
Verisimiltude.
IRL, the soldier toting around the LMG is goign to be carrying exta ammon and not acouple of rockets.
From a tactical perspective the classes have their uses.
Sniper -Squadsight sniper
Scout -Snapshot sniper....who can use shotguns
Medic -Medic support
engineer -grenade support.
Assault- Shotgun assault
Infantry- Rifle assault
Gunner- Firesupport.
Rocketeer- Useless.
I call it as I see it. When someone cannot come into a thread about Long War without some sort of snide remark or calling it broken, then I seen an agenda there. Lots of people like Long War. Quite a few don't. The best way to deal with something you don't like is to not use it. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on other people's enjoyment, and discouraging other people from trying it out to see if they enjoy it is a pretty crappy thing to do.
Maybe the game is unbalanced, maybe it's not. Lots of people seem to beat it. I don't know if they actually do or not, since I'm not peering over their shoulder. Lots of people also seem to try different strategies, with varying degrees of success. I do know that the Long War devs put a lot of work in, and listen to a lot of feedback, more than a little bit of it rude as ♥♥♥♥. I've seen the discussions, and I've seen the results of the discussions going into the changelogs. You're free to not like it, you're free to like it and still have concerns. You're even free to be a complete ♥♥♥♥-wad about it, I suppose, but I'm never going to be okay with that last sort, whether it be about Long War, or anything else.
Also, While I don't like Rocketeers, playing (as I do) with Cinematic Mode, I've never really had to worry about Steadying them before firing off a rocket. Sometimes it'll go off-course, but it's rarely so bad that I regret it. (Note: I didn't say never; It's happened that I've wanted the Rocketeer to get Mind Controlled just so I could shoot them in the head)
The choice is Rocketeer or Gunner. there is no situation where a gunner would be worse than a rocketeer.
'I call it as I see it'. BULL!! You and red and few others troll these forums insulting and denigrating anyone who disagrees with you. You speak of '♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on other people's enjoyment' and yet you are one of the worst offenders. The OP specifically asked 'what is the point'. The response 'there is none' IS A PERFECTLY VALID RESPONSE TO THE OPS QUESTION whether you like it or not.
You're okay when you are the ♥♥♥♥ wad... or others who share your point of view. But if someone with differing views is a ♥♥♥♥ wad well then... time to call them out.
You, Happy, Incunabulum, Red run around these forums trolling anyone who disagrees with you. Yet you are the worst offenders. Master was on topic, and discussing a mod. You on the other hand (like Happy, Incunabulum, Red, etc, love to do) immedietly attack the person. 'You're not good enough', 'need to L2P', 'kiddies these days need to learn what hard is', etc... All you have are ad-hominem. On a forum about XCom saying 'XCom sucks' is ON TOPIC and allowed. Denigrating, belittling, and insulting others IS NOT ON TOPIC and not allowed.
So either stay on topic and present actual points/arguments. Or go troll somewhere else. Cause that's what you're doing, trolling.
Because gunners can totally kill an entire pack of seekers/drones in a single action. Or remove cover. Or apply shred to 6 Heavy Floaters in a single turn.
Gunners are consistently good, on any given mission a rocketeer is either amazing or highly underwhelming. They seem to peak during the fall when they have good accuracy and perks (and Recoiless Rifle) and then gradually become less useful into the later game due to alien HP scaling and the crazy strength of some other classes at high rank.