Long War 15 bugs

[Kaisha]

In spite of my usual complaints, the 15 beta changes seem overwhelmingly positive. That said the second wave options seem buggy. Despite the second wave option being set, I can't seem to choose my soldier's class. Also I seem to be losing arc throwers periodically.

[Incunabulum]

For the CC choice option - it has to be done in the Barracks screen, not at the end of mission screen.

And you have to use the Soldier select buttons at the bottom to page through the classes.

As for Arc Throwers - are you checking to see if they're damaged? Equipment damage is a normal thing, the 2nd wave option doens't *enable it*, it just makes it happen more.

[Kaisha]

Ahh, you are probably right in both those cases, ty.

[Kaisha]

So let me get this straight, after a couple missions any crafted item becomes broken and you have to re-pay to have if fixed?

That is completely ridiculous. You don't get nearly enough resources from a mission to justify the costs to repair the items used to complete that mission. On top of that should you ever get behind (say exalt hack) you can't complete the mission without the items you need to complete the mission to get the the resource to repair the items you need to complete the mission.

Also the hunter UFOs seem bugged. In that if you damage a hunter so that it abandons its mission, but don't destroy it, it'll immediately launch a second one. I imagine this is because the 'UFO escaped' code doesn't check what the type of UFO that got away. Which means you miss one UFO and you can kiss your entire satellite network g-bye.

[Incunabulum]

No, after a couple of missions there is a *chance* that an item will need to be fixed.

Just means that you can't rely on having one set of uber-gear to share between soldiers. This is something that EW started (with the base defense mission where you can't choose or equip soldiers) and LW is refining (especially since they put back the ability to equip and choose soldiers for that mission).


As for the Hunters - UFO's have always run two attempts to find the satellite. The second attempt has roughly twice the chance to succeed.

I've always had the opposite problem - destroy a hunter and a second launches immediately, but *drive it off* and no second mission. It may be they've fixed that finally.

LW is not *easy* and there's lot's of things that are fustrating - that's kinda by design. its not just XCOM with some new gear.

[Incunabulum]

What might help - items have a chance to be damaged when your soldiers are (Wear & Tear just adds in it happening for no particular reason).

Basically, avoid getting hit (yeah, I know) and you won't get damage gear.


"Not all items can be damaged -- and of those that can, different items have different likelihoods. Protective gear has the highest; guns+gun addons is lower. Ammo and Grenades IIRC can't be damaged.

What should be happening is that damaged items sit damaged and unavailable until you build the repair bay and fix them. That's certainly what we've observed. "

[Mhblis]

I can see what they are trying to achieve with the repair mechanic but there is some balancing needed here since RNG can be a bit heavy handed. See all of my laser carbines breaking at once.

I think a resource rebalance may need to happen across the board. Will take some more playing to really decide.

[red255]

I haven't played Beta 15, but breaking gear and needing a workbench to fix sounds *REALLY* lame.

like skyrim or something. that sounds like something I'd remove in the ini without even looking at. I don't want it, I don't think its cool. its not XCOM, its just lame.

An option to make it worse and not a second wave option to remove it entirely is....out of touch.

Hey Hey you know what would make XCOM better? If your stuff broke all the time for no reason.

hell lets give it 50% odds because we love our 50% odds.

Or is it like fatigue for Weapons?

Yeah Talk me into not removing it, and giving it a chance. because Its sounding REALLY stupid from outside.

I mean most of the long war changes sound nice on paper, but this I don't even have to look at to know, I really don't think that adds ANYTHING of value.

[Bullett00th]

Originally posted by red255:

I haven't played Beta 15, but breaking gear and needing a workbench to fix sounds *REALLY* lame.

*rant*

so play without it. I'm willing to try it out. I don't see how it's worse than, say, diminishing resourses, total loss or some other really hardcore SW options

[Mhblis]

Yes its a more realistic feel like fatigue is. As I stated though the chance is low and you can lower it even more in the ini. Me and RNG just have a real Hate Hate relationship. And to be honest from looking at the lets play and talking to my buddies it seems to barely come up really.

[red255]

IS the repair bay a modification of a workshop?

[Bullett00th]

Originally posted by red255:

IS the repair bay a modification of a workshop?

no it's a separate structure, but it provides the workshop adjacency bonus like the foundry and the cyberlab

[Kaisha]

Originally posted by Incunabulum:

No, after a couple of missions there is a *chance* that an item will need to be fixed.

Just means that you can't rely on having one set of uber-gear to share between soldiers. This is something that EW started (with the base defense mission where you can't choose or equip soldiers) and LW is refining (especially since they put back the ability to equip and choose soldiers for that mission).

The problem is that this mechanic, though well intentioned, is not well thought through. If repairs only cost a minimal amount of resources (alloys, ect...) but not cash this could work. Or not even cost money but just time. But the problem is you can't run with a large cash reserve in this game. You run our of cash, you run out of items, you run out of ways to get items, game over. Its a negative feedback loop. This is the very thing that destroyed Firefall. As addictive as positive feedback loops are to people, negative are equally despised.

Originally posted by Incunabulum:

As for the Hunters - UFO's have always run two attempts to find the satellite. The second attempt has roughly twice the chance to succeed.

I've always had the opposite problem - destroy a hunter and a second launches immediately, but *drive it off* and no second mission. It may be they've fixed that finally.

LW is not *easy* and there's lot's of things that are fustrating - that's kinda by design. its not just XCOM with some new gear.

RNG is not 'hard'. If its just frustrating due to RNG and no other reason; then only a handfull of masochists will play it. Its why almost no one plays LW without editing the ini. For every cool idea they seem to have this idea that they need to tack on a 'punishment' for using it. Fatique is awesome, what isn't is every single soldier upgrade increasing that to ridiculous levels. UFOs not being super easy to destroy, good. Sending 20+ UFOs a month that take 3 interceptors to take down a single one, with 200$ a satellite. This is not 'hard' its just silly. There's no reliable way to keep satellites in the air. Even with 6 interceptors on a single continent in beta 14 I couldn't keep more than a single satellite up for almost the entire game. Fixing a bug that means they send even more interceptors simply means there is even LESS of an air war.

Ah well thanks for the replys anyways. I had high hopes for beta 15 as alot of the changes seemed rather positive. Its too bad they keep shooting themselves in the foot...

[Kaisha]

Exalt missions are now even buggier. You will regularly be told 'this is the last wave' only to have more waves come each one again 'the last wave'. The com towers still don't do anything. Exalt rocketeers still have perfect accuracy, dmg not being affected by cover or blast radius. The spawn points are all a mess, with exalt starting in all sorts of silly places. Some exalt seem to start 'activated' without being seen and seem to sit there on overwatch. They were bad in beta14, but this... this is even more of a mess...

[Zug Zug]

I have been playing the Dynamic War option and it really puts you in a fatigue spiral bad. It was a way to balance out the missions I read but now fatigue times are anything from 30-80 days(if injured). Yes mission are scarcer but not always so. I had a landed harvester second month, then a week after i get a terror mission(along with the zhang mission) ok cool. Next week a landed supply barge and an abducion in my home land which you can't ignore for panic purposes. All I have are rookies to fight these off because anyone who got injured is out for a very long time.

We all like challenges and I love LW(Can't go back to vanilla). Yet sometimes I think they make it to punishing. I don't mind losing soldiers or getting my ass kicked sometimes but LW can go overboard and anyone who has played it for a long length of time knows how ♥♥♥♥♥♥ it can be. I think the game is hard enough and we don't need everything to be so realistic(Down for the choice though, i.e. second wave options)

Yet I love all the great changes they have made also but hey LW Devs I think you made it hard enough in alot of areas now just balance it out before adding more stuff to make it harder. Also equipment damage should be a choice for the player, remember everyone's definition of fun is their own idea so let the choice be there, not a more punishing version of it in the options.

[BrowneHawk]

Yeah i loved so much f the stuff long war adds. The difficulty is just stupid. Lets add a bunch of new stuff and then make the ♥♥♥♥ difficult. Id rather of had normal difficulty with the long campaign.