Long War gunner builds

[George Kerman]

Hi guys,

I was thinking about my Gunner builds and the fact that, for me, only one seems to be working out very well. I was wondering what's working for you. In your replies, please mention at least:

a) Main role of the build
b) Secondary objectives of the build
c) Downsides

I'll begin with detailing my build and the reasons behind some choices.


a) Main role of the build

The main role of the gunner in my squad is to suppress high priority targets that can't be killed in that turn, while at the same time tanking a lot of damage (because it will be shot at very frequently by the target being suppressed and its buddies). He is the guy controlling the alien heavy hitters like mechtoids, disks and sectopods.

b) Secondary objectives of the build

"Mark for death" one or two priority targets with Double Tap either with HEAT or shredder by dealing significant amount of damage in case of mechanical targets or shredding things like berserkers, muton elites and ethereals to be followed by a sniper shot finishing them off.

c) Downsides

Not much damage and not much aim. The damage is basically the one that the weapon level offers and the aim - the base one plus what items offer. No perks aim or crit % - focused are employed because it needs to survive shots from the suppressor and from its potential living "relatives".

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=587109666

The LCPL skills I usually take are 75% holo, 25% Flush. Flush is more situational and can provoke a target to move in an area out of sight, thereby having no control over it when it could have been much better to just suppress it.

The CPL skills are divided between HEAT 60% - Shredder 40%. Shredder can be obtained through a rocket as well and that is why I'd consider HEAT a higher priority.

SGT skill I always take is Will to Survive. Because the gunner is shot at a lot, even in high cover with smoke, there are situations when he will take damage (for example, thin men snipers left unchecked are good at this). In order to fulfill his mission, he basically needs this. Against Executioner - it's not like he is the main kill finisher of the squad. Against ranger, again, that 1+ base damage will probably not make the difference between a kill or not.

The TSGT skill I take is double tap, always. As the gunner is not one of the main priority classes for high aim, I don't expect many of them to reach base 90-100 aim at the MSGT rank. So a decrease of 15 aim imposed by rapid fire might have significant consequences. Additionally, double tap can be used to finish off two targets (or shred them). Sure, the one turn cooldown does have some disadvantage, yet one can play around that cooldown turn.

The GSGT skill for my gunners is resilience. Again, because they are shot at a lot, their cover might even be blown by some heavy floaters grenading or they could get critically hit by some lucky thin men shots, resilience helps them survive a lot of situations that might otherwise be very dangerous. As the focus of my build is not high aim or damage, resilience is the way to go.

Finally, for such a tank build, the last perk is Extra Conditioning of course. Additional HP, some will to resist mindfrays and berserkers roaring and the extra one point in mobility all do very good to assist the gunner in its main job. Sentinel is just not for my kind of guy meaning it's not his job score big on overwatch shots and mayhem is too negligible especially when dealing with mechtoids, disks and sectopods.

Equipment:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=587109861

Titan armor, SAW weapon type (plasma novagun in this case), neural gunlink, walker servos and chitin plating.
I personally prefer SAW weapon types because, as stated before, the gunner's role in my team is also to absorb hits (while suppressing). So I'd rather present him, be visible to all still active aliens, have him in high cover (preferably smoke too) and be shot at because he can take it. In missions with significant seeker / thin man population a respirator implant instead of chitin plating can be considered. For shredder gunners, armor piercing ammo can also be considered.

Gene mods:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=587110007

No surprises here, everything is survivability focused.

Psi path:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=587110648

Because they already have an active well defined job, I prefer passive psi skills like neural feedback and distortion field. For further levels, I opt for psi panic (he can be the one mind merged to but in most cases not the one doing the mind merging) and psychokinetic strike in the rare situations when cover removal is better than suppressing or firing its gun.

I have consulted plenty of other builds like the ones mentioned here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GTQ0xGMkVDUfpsJZl5A4UxcSSlC2sdDqef5t6h_cbkM/edit#gid=563704489

and on reddit, yet the above one is the one that makes the most sense for me and helped me significantly in finalizing Long War.

Do share the builds that work out for you or any comments / improvements directed towards mine.

[tangoafterdark]

I use Gunners in the opposite way you do. Gunners completely replace Infantry in my games and mainly serve as officers and damagers. I usually train a few that can serve as backup Tanks, but SHIVs do most of my tanking.

My usual Gunner build is:

Flush
HEAT
Ranger (WTS for officers)
Double Tap
Platform Stability
Mayhem (sometimes EC)

My Gunners carry AP Ammo and usually a SCOPE, too. I bring 2 Gunners and a SHIV on most missions, so big mechanical units basically die on sight. My other units can usually take care of the fleshy aliens and if I really need Suppression, the SHIV does it, so my Gunners don't need defensive skills. A nice perk with this build is that you can 1-shot Seekers/Drones on Impossible with Flush, even in the early-ish game.

[happy]

i used my gunners quite differently actually.

i see them as HEAT damage dealers.

so basically they never shred, and though they do supress when needed, i rely on other classes for supression, or on a second lower rank gunner.

starting from september i simply always take 2 gunners.

my typical gunner build is:

flush or hollow targeting, 50/50(i like flush, i like to be sure to annihilate that 2 HP floater)
HEAT
will to survive(the extra cover DR,gunslinger just can' t compete)
rapid fire
the "crit resistance skill"
mayhem

they clearly use titan armor, they carry a scope and an alloy plating(medkit early game)

thankfully i put more care into my other classes build, i am aware my gunners are just dumb rambos.

[George Kerman]

Originally posted by Santander:

I use Gunners in the opposite way you do. Gunners completely replace Infantry in my games and mainly serve as officers and damagers. I usually train a few that can serve as backup Tanks, but SHIVs do most of my tanking.

My usual Gunner build is:

Flush
HEAT
Ranger (WTS for officers)
Double Tap
Platform Stability
Mayhem (sometimes EC)

My Gunners carry AP Ammo and usually a SCOPE, too. I bring 2 Gunners and a SHIV on most missions, so big mechanical units basically die on sight. My other units can usually take care of the fleshy aliens and if I really need Suppression, the SHIV does it, so my Gunners don't need defensive skills. A nice perk with this build is that you can 1-shot Seekers/Drones on Impossible with Flush, even in the early-ish game.

I'm quite intrigued. How do you choose the gunners (if you have commander's coice), are they the second destination of high aim troopers?

Will definitely try this out.

Another thing about my strat is that I don't use SHIVs (at all), so there was basically no other designated tanker except these guys in my team. They were just costing too much money / alloys / time so I decided in my last 2 playthroughs to not use them at all. There are definitely many ways to skin a cat.

[George Kerman]

Originally posted by happy:

i used my gunners quite differently actually.

i see them as HEAT damage dealers.

so basically they never shred, and though they do supress when needed, i rely on other classes for supression, or on a second lower rank gunner.

starting from september i simply always take 2 gunners.

my typical gunner build is:

flush or hollow targeting, 50/50(i like flush, i like to be sure to annihilate that 2 HP floater)
HEAT
will to survive(the extra cover DR,gunslinger just can' t compete)
rapid fire
the "crit resistance skill"
mayhem

they clearly use titan armor, they carry a scope and an alloy plating(medkit early game)

thankfully i put more care into my other classes build, i am aware my gunners are just dumb rambos.

So, do you use a SAW-type weapon or an LMG? I would assume SAW because you mentioned rapid-fire. So I guess your gunners reposition a lot therefore benefit from Rapid Fire more than from double tap. Additionally, only alloy plating, why not chitin? I suppose the movement is a constraint, but late game I give mine walker servos so that they carry chitin.

[happy]

i use alloy plating because i don' t pick extraconditioning, so that one movement matters a lot.
i don't use any thing that alters my soldiers, no stupid political ethical reason for that, i just feel like my guys should remain humans.I guess i roleplay in my head and assumemy guys don' t like seringes nor limbcutting saws.

i use the regular big gun(SAW i guess), i like aggressive play and to be honest the one time i tried LMGs i think my game was bugged, they didn t work(got my hands into somewhat real modding, and i'm not very good at it apparently)

so SAW it is.

[Bullett00th]

nice setup. do you spec all your gunners this way? I have 3: 2 common ones and one 'just in case' tank. yours seems to be a mixture of my tank and SAW guys.

You're saying they lack damage output, which is why I prefer Ranger and Mayhem on them. with shredder and double tap they are insane.

the other option is a full overwatch build for LMGs since they don't move much - it's all perks from the middle, and it's the best overwatch unit you can have. You fire with squadsight and increased aim and then enter highly accurate overwatch with 2 covering fire shots. I rolled one of these gunners with a ballistic LMG during base defense and camped the first area through the whole mission (the aliens decided to move up). He's a beast overwatcher. Combined with an overwatch-specced infantry you have an extremely effective ambush squad on your hands.

[tangoafterdark]

Originally posted by George van Doorn:

I'm quite intrigued. How do you choose the gunners (if you have commander's coice), are they the second destination of high aim troopers?

Will definitely try this out.

Another thing about my strat is that I don't use SHIVs (at all), so there was basically no other designated tanker except these guys in my team. They were just costing too much money / alloys / time so I decided in my last 2 playthroughs to not use them at all. There are definitely many ways to skin a cat.

Aim isn't a big priority for my rookie Gunners because I always seem to have a shortage of enough high-aim rookies to turn into Snipers/Rocketeers. Most dangerous mechanical units are in the open (Sectopods, Mechtoids, sometimes Cyberdiscs), so aim isn't important and I can use Flush for flying units and fleshy units in cover. I lean towards HP and Will most of the time because many of them will become officers and I want them to be able to take a hit even if they aren't tank specced. I wouldn't assign a 60 Aim rookie to be a Gunner, but 63 Aim is just fine.

I don't use MECs and I skip Pulse so I can easily spare the cash/alloys for SHIVs. With the SHIV Foundry projects, Core Armoring and Alloy Carbide Plating on my SHIVs, I find that I rarely need to rebuild. I also usually play with Red Fog, so that definitely tilts the balance in favor of SHIV tanks over human tanks. You're right that there's many ways to play this game.

[George Kerman]

Originally posted by Bullett00th:

nice setup. do you spec all your gunners this way? I have 3: 2 common ones and one 'just in case' tank. yours seems to be a mixture of my tank and SAW guys.

You're saying they lack damage output, which is why I prefer Ranger and Mayhem on them. with shredder and double tap they are insane.

the other option is a full overwatch build for LMGs since they don't move much - it's all perks from the middle, and it's the best overwatch unit you can have. You fire with squadsight and increased aim and then enter highly accurate overwatch with 2 covering fire shots. I rolled one of these gunners with a ballistic LMG during base defense and campted the first area through the whole mission (the aliens decided to move up). He's a beast overwatcher. Combined with an overwatch-specced infantry you have an extremely effective ambush squad on your hands.

Interesting...

Yeah, I had some guys vary from that standard build but they didn't excel at anything so after becoming MSGTs/ GSGTs they were put in reserve... indefinitely. So basically yes, in my latest playthrough I've generally only used that build with slight variations.
You do have a point with the Overwatch specialist with the LMG for controlling key areas... Not to mention there are plenty of landings and terror missions when the aliens converge on your position so you just don't move.
Maybe that's what I was lacking in base defense! I definitely gotta try this. Thanks.

[Bullett00th]

make sure to equip them with some kind of special ammo because they become even better.

I'll try your build as well since I don't use gunners for drawing fire usually and have a few spare CPLs to level up.

[George Kerman]

Originally posted by Santander:

Aim isn't a big priority for my rookie Gunners because I always seem to have a shortage of enough high-aim rookies to turn into Snipers/Rocketeers. Most dangerous mechanical units are in the open (Sectopods, Mechtoids, sometimes Cyberdiscs), so aim isn't important and I can use Flush for flying units and fleshy units in cover. I lean towards HP and Will most of the time because many of them will become officers and I want them to be able to take a hit even if they aren't tank specced. I wouldn't assign a 60 Aim rookie to be a Gunner, but 63 Aim is just fine.

I don't use MECs and I skip Pulse so I can easily spare the cash/alloys for SHIVs. With the SHIV Foundry projects, Core Armoring and Alloy Carbide Plating on my SHIVs, I find that I rarely need to rebuild. I also usually play with Red Fog, so that definitely tilts the balance in favor of SHIV tanks over human tanks. You're right that there's many ways to play this game.

You got a good case here, I hope you don't mind If I "reuse" some of your ideas in my next plays.
I usually stick to a few Second Wave options and rarely/never deviate from them; I'm not really into Red Fog but you do have a good point that it changes the balance quite a bit towards SHIV tanks.
Another reason for my build that I just recalled is that, once you get a sniper with gauss, if he crits, he one shots mechtoids and cyberdisks and even shredded/ chemmed sectopods. So my gunner was more like: "Ah crap, I activated 2 pods again! Hey aliens! Try to hit me! I supress your heavy hitter buddy and I'm in high cover with smoke!" So basically my build is sort of an exploit that aliens tend to shoot at the suppressor and also an "insurance" of sorts that no other trooper gets shot.

I don't know if you tried, but when I go for captures, I suppress the target alien and the engineer can just go at it completely exposed. The alien will fire at the supressor (unless he's got Light 'Em Up) and ignore the ~100% point blank shot on the exposed engineer. The target being supressed doesn't need to be flanked or it will try to move. This is a sure way to try, try again with the arc thrower.