Squadsight vs Snap Shot

[Z3R0]

I realize this has been discussed before, but I'm confused as to what this actually does. In my current playthrough, I have two snipers. One is Colonel level, with Squadsight, and the other is a Captain with Snap Shot. The Captain seems generally more useful than the Colonel, unless the Colonel can get off Double Tap. I originally "purchased" squad sight thinking it would magically let me shoot anything my squad could see, even through walls. Obviously, this is not what it does. I still have some questions about Squad sight:

1) What kind of range does a sniper have? It seems pretty good even without squad sight.

2) What kind of aim penalty is there for an extreme range shot?

3) Is there any visual cue when Squad Sight is active? I really can't tell when it's active and when it's not. I'm not even sure I've ever successfully used it.

4) Snapshot has generally proven more when advancing on an enemy position, or for a more mobile sniper. The problem with setting up extreme range shots seems to be that there always seems to be an obstacle in the way. A Squadsight sniper also has to move into position, then wait for a whole new turn to take a shot. Given that, which ability do most people find superior?

[characters]

Originally posted by Bananaman:

Given that, which ability do most people find superior?

SqS is superior IMo. AI is tactically same on Every difficulty, and only SqS is out of AI's tactical mind when enemies are engaging or you trigger enemies.

[Mhblis]

With squad sight the range is the entire map usually. It does cap but very few of the maps are actually that big.

Without squad sight the snipers weapon range is bigger than their sight range. With some quick testing about a dash and a half move before the sniper visual range caps.

When the little heads pop up when sniper is selected that's when it shows which targets are squad sight and which are normal hits.

Squad sight is vastly superior. It's down to how you play though. As they said in the other thread find high ground and you should never need to move him in most maps. Even easier when you have flight armor or early game with lots of explosives.

I do like snap shot but it requires a specific play style to get the best out of.

[Z3R0]

So...do I have to move my team around the map to find an optimal sniper's nest? If I'm dealing with a downed UFO, how is my sniper going to hit the Ethereal on the command deck? Maybe it's been the luck of the draw, but most of the maps I've dealt with so far have been pretty cluttered, without any obvious way to get to the top of trees/railroad cars/buildings. In urban maps, by the time the sniper makes it to high ground, my team has already engaged the enemy and wiped them out.

Maybe it's a timing thing. I mostly stay under cover, but move forward pretty quickly to engage. I generally don't scout the battlefield out, because I don't want my team spread out too much, or lone soldiers to get ambushed by a group of aliens.

[Phryxo]

There is no absolute formula, man. Just use common sense. You must've gotten some maps more than others so, by now, you should have an idea of where the pods usually are, etc. If it's a very open map like some of the UFO sites[www.ufopaedia.org] you may not even need to move your sniper at all, or only after you've cleared everything outside the ship and you're ready to move in. Other maps[www.ufopaedia.org] have many things blocking line of sight if you don't have flight so you'll probably need to move your sniper around a bit to make him useful. That's where Snap Shot snipers are better, obviously.

Also, consider getting In the Zone for you next Squadsight sniper. Some people prefer Double Tap but, really, given the amount of flying enemies you'll encounter, chrysalids, enemies whose cover you can destroy, etc, it's just an amazing ability. It will win you many, many battles.

[characters]

Originally posted by Bananaman:

Maybe it's been the luck of the draw, but most of the maps I've dealt with so far have been pretty cluttered, without any obvious way to get to the top of trees/railroad cars/buildings. In urban maps, by the time the sniper makes it to high ground, my team has already engaged the enemy and wiped them out.

You have no problem without SqS so far, then it's OK. You can wipe them out, so far. Why you persist to question about that?

BTW, Another recent similar topic from MythTrip is up there, it would answer your question a lot.

[Bóbr]

Like some people said: it depends on your use of the sniper. I personally think that a sniper with snapshot is useful if you try to make a "designated marksman" (a sniper that advances with the unit), while squadsight makes a "real" sniper that "camps" on a higher position and gets his targets spotted by his squadmates.

[Tome]

Originally posted by Bananaman:

I realize this has been discussed before, but I'm confused as to what this actually does. In my current playthrough, I have two snipers. One is Colonel level, with Squadsight, and the other is a Captain with Snap Shot. The Captain seems generally more useful than the Colonel, unless the Colonel can get off Double Tap. I originally "purchased" squad sight thinking it would magically let me shoot anything my squad could see, even through walls. Obviously, this is not what it does. I still have some questions about Squad sight:

1) What kind of range does a sniper have? It seems pretty good even without squad sight.

2) What kind of aim penalty is there for an extreme range shot?

3) Is there any visual cue when Squad Sight is active? I really can't tell when it's active and when it's not. I'm not even sure I've ever successfully used it.

4) Snapshot has generally proven more when advancing on an enemy position, or for a more mobile sniper. The problem with setting up extreme range shots seems to be that there always seems to be an obstacle in the way. A Squadsight sniper also has to move into position, then wait for a whole new turn to take a shot. Given that, which ability do most people find superior?

1. The same range as every other soldier

2. There is no penalty in xcom eu (they added one in xcom 2 tho)

3. Over the little alien heads that represent different targets, a little crosshair appears if its a squadsight shot

4. Squadsight is almost always better. After u learn the maps and fight good spots for your sniper (just zoom all the way out and remember that u can shoot over half cover but not through full cover). Its all about setting him up with the right sightlines.

I would say that essentially everyone who has played xcom for a while thinks squadsight is better. Everyone I know personally does think that and after all, squadsight got nerfed in xcom 2 and snapshot was removed...

[Tome]

Originally posted by characters:

Originally posted by Bananaman:

Maybe it's been the luck of the draw, but most of the maps I've dealt with so far have been pretty cluttered, without any obvious way to get to the top of trees/railroad cars/buildings. In urban maps, by the time the sniper makes it to high ground, my team has already engaged the enemy and wiped them out.

You have no problem without SqS so far, then it's OK. You can wipe them out, so far. Why you persist to question about that?

BTW, Another recent similar topic from MythTrip is up there, it would answer your question a lot.

give ur snipers the skeleton suit and archangel armour cos mobility is very helpful for them

[Schanez]

Okay... The thing is, most classes offer two 'main' possibilities of being build, sort of... For a sniper, it's the diference between Squadsight and Snap Shot, or in other words a sniper that remains stationary through most of the mission and one that advances with the team, offering vision and fire support.

Firstly to answer your questions:

1. Not sure here... I saw somewhere the number 24 for the range of weapons, but not sure if it means tiles or distance. If the later, divide it by aprox. 1.6 and oyu get the tiles, if it works the same as Mobility stat. For snipers the range is 100, but again, cannot quote as I lsot the source and not remembering it properly.

2. Snipers have no aim penalty for extreme range, in fact they have reversed aim for other weapons. The closer the enemy is, the lower the chance to hit for sniper rifles, making swapping to a pistol a prefered option up close.

3. You can see the sniper is firing with Squadsight by the small orange mark on the visible aliens heads on the bottom right side when shooting. Like on this picture (quick google) http://wiki.tesnexus.com/images/8/84/Squadsight_Aim_Mod_TacticalHUD.jpg

4. Overall Squadsight is considered to be superior, thanks to Archangel Armor that allows you to fly high and just take shots from superior position without worrying about cover and los. But both skills have their uses. Overall, for urban areas you want a Snap Shot, as there will be too many obstacles to make a Squadsight viable. The diference is mostly in your style of gameplay.

I myself use an Archangel Armor Squadsight or a Ghost Armor Snap Shot, depending on the mood most of the time. The later when paired with In the Zone and when moved to a nice flanking position can offer a lot of damage from behind the enemy lines. The former can Overwatch the entire team, floating somewhere in the skies and taking usually 100% Overwatch shots at each triggered alien pocket. There is no superior build, it's a matter of style. Same as with Assaults, which you can build to be high risk/reward crit-dmg gods or bulky vanguards that take hits like champs.

[Hasefrexx]

I don't like much squad sight snipers. While there is no aim penalty, crit hit is down to 0 while it's one of the sniper's strength. In the other hand, the other perk removes the painful immobility of sniper and trades it for -10 accuracy. Importantly, there is no malus if you don't move. Also, with second wave options it's quite possible to flank the ennemy with moving sniper, while your squad sight will commonly have to shoot with full cover penalty.

Both make for good perks so I would say pick the one you like the most...

[Z3R0]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm on my first playthrough, so I'm still seeing new maps and am not familiar with all of them yet. I just finished researching the Archangel Armor, but don't have enough cash at the moment to build a suit. Next month (or maybe if I can sell some alien corpses) I'll craft a suit of flying armor and see how well it pairs with Squadsight.

[the_assassin]

On some maps, you can find a good spot near the start where a squadsight sniper can hit just about anyone, anywhere. On other maps, there's too many obstructions, and you have to keep moving your sniper, in which case snapshot is better.

I haven't tested it enough, but I'm told that double tap works better with squad sight, while in the zone is better with snapshot (because it depends more on getting in the right position).

If your using Second Wave training roulette, squadsight + holotargeting is nice, because you can potentially put the targeting debuff on any enemy anywhere. Or on two enemies if you have doubletap.

[Tome]

Its seems obvious to me that snapshot is worse overall. I mean in xcom 2 the devs nerfed squadsight and made it the snipers 1st perk (the one u dont pick) cos its such an easy pick. They just removed snapshot fro the game, because very few people picked it - and the fact the buffed pistols

[Hymirl]

Agreed, snapshot just isn't that great. Its a choice between making poor shots or awesomely gunning down anyone in LOS. Its an easy pick. Any class can move and shoot, only snipers cancheadshot enemies from across the map. Its such a useful get out of jail card.

I've had some use from gunslinger. If you keep your sniper with you inside alien ships it means they add a useful bit of combat power while on the move, pistols get bumped up to rifle damage.

[White Knight]

Snapshot if you gonna play agressively, and need hurry to take meld canisters. Very good for flank. You usually need just two snipers with squadsight (one, or both, for pistol missions).