Highly recommend Training Roulette

[Qutsemnie]

I feel like most of the second wave options have serious flaws, but Training Roulette is not one of them.

Not Created Equally and Hidden Potential just let you create super soldiers in a short amount of time, but Training Roulette does not have as over-powered a feel.

I think the reason is that in a lot of ways, the default classes themselves are OP, so a lot of the time with Training Roulette you find yourself chasing strong abilities that you would get trivially without it on. (Try running half the game without Lightning Reflexes for example). Occasionally you get a combination of abilities and go, "that is OP", but then you think, "naw it is just my other soldiers are sucking lol".

The fun part is Training Roulette forces all these choices on you that you never got to make before. Is immunity to critical hits stronger than sprinter? Those sorts of choices. There are some choices where you are like, "totally taking that", but a lot of them are, "man I want both of those, damn."


I do feel that it reduces supports to irrelevance. Mostly because run and gun is such a strong ability, and since support no longer has a monopoly on anything but smoke grenade they feel less impactful.

Also, while I am on a soap box, been doing the army of four achievement this last game, and if you want a set of options that strongly mitigate the impact of late game gear-flation army of four + Training Roulette is it.


Currently got my lightning reflexes on a heavy. Just happy it didn't take me half the game to get one this time.

[hghwolf]

I agree, Training Roulette is FUN. It allows skill combinations that can change a soldiers entire combat application, and while some are certainly quite OP - HEAT sniper comes to mind - it really makes each soldier an individual unit with strength and weaknesses beyond his or her class skills.

[Fredericks of Cursewood]

I love it too. The only thing that I wish that it did is allow you to see what the later perks would be. Some perks synergize well with other perks, it would help that decision making process.

[Vimbert]

Training Roulette is super fun. I can't play without it now.

[Warmonger]

exclusively play using training roulette.

Got an assault with Close & Personal, Bullet Swarm, Rapid Fire and Heat Ammo...... four shots of Robot killing goodness per turn....

[subscriber]

The "Training Roulette" is not a perfect fun all of the time, because sometimes (though really rarely, indeed) you might get to choose between a useless and even more useless perk:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=298644705

Now, that is a choice, isn't it? For a squad-sight sniper, that usually stands kilometres away from the nearest opponent, you get to choose between a "close combat" and a "grenadier" :)

[hghwolf]

Grenadier actually has some use for snipers, as does CaP. Not all maps have squadsight sniper far enough that they couldn`t run up and pop a ghost, or you might just carry ghosts as insurance against sudden, unexpected pod activation. There are also times where a sniper can use frag/alien grenades to great effect.

As for CaP, the close range penalty isn`t huge enough to make a range 4 shot nigh imposible to hit with for a sniper. It`s certainly nothing to rely on but it might also save your soldier.

I`d pick grenadier, since it`s more reliable.

[Qutsemnie]

Neither of those is useless.

Originally posted by subscriber:

The "Training Roulette" is not a perfect fun all of the time, because sometimes (though really rarely, indeed) you might get to choose between a useless and even more useless perk:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=298644705

Now, that is a choice, isn't it? For a squad-sight sniper, that usually stands kilometres away from the nearest opponent, you get to choose between a "close combat" and a "grenadier" :)

Let me break out some sentences from my original post:
1) "Not Created Equally and Hidden Potential just let you create super soldiers in a short amount of time, but Training Roulette does not have as over-powered a feel."
2) "the default classes themselves are OP, so a lot of the time with Training Roulette you find yourself chasing strong abilities that you would get trivially without it on."
3) "Occasionally you get a combination of abilities and go, "that is OP", but then you think, "naw it is just my other soldiers are sucking lol".

I don't even think that is nearly the most screwed soldier I have seen. That was part of the argument about why it wasn't OP. With your default classes you *know* you will get a deadly combo of abilities. You don't know that at all when you have to chose between grenadier and close combat on your squad sight sniper. It doesn't fit, but if every ability synergized with every other ability it would either
a) be the status quo of current classes
b) quickly be OP.

Are you claiming your squad sniper is gimped beyond use ability is the not fun part, or are you claiming the fact that you didn't get to chose from "Executioner" and "opportunist" is the thing that made it not fun?

Yeah the squad sniper is a little bit off the mark from the default classes, but that is the point, "naw it is just my other soldiers are sucking lol". It is about making lemonade from lemons. That is the fun part, and that wasn't even the worst example.

The default classes are "auto-lemonade". The training roulette classes are occasionally "require effort to make lemonade".

Anyway, lot of words for "I guess to each there own =)"

[subscriber]

Relax lads, just saying that the Training Roulette can (rarely, but!) bring some unfavorable choices, though I use it always, too, and I love it, just like the next player :)

@hgwolf: thanks for the idea, two ghosts do sound like a reasonable usage for a grenadier squad-sight, most of the time.

@Qutsemnie: I am yet to see a useful close combat squad-sight sniper situation, I haven't seen the perk in that combination being really useful for once in a couple of hundreds of hours. A few times I had those, thanks to the Training Roulette, but I have never seen such a sniper hits the opponent using that perk. So, one is pretty useless, definitely. The other one is not so comforting, either, in this particular combination.

For me, the only worse thing than this choice is to send a Captain for a secondary heart, only to get the resilience as a Major at the next promotion :)

[subscriber]

However, combining Saviour, Filed Medic, Revive and Deep Pockets for a Support that can Sprint would be a completely different side of the Training Roulette medal! That I would consider to be a real jackpot.

[hghwolf]

Originally posted by subscriber:

For me, the only worse thing than this choice is to send a Captain for a secondary heart, only to get the resilience as a Major at the next promotion :)

Why would that be bad ? There`s always the chance that something goes horribly wrong and Second Heart eliminates any permanent consequences for letting a soldier hit 0.

Which isn`t to say Adrenal Neurosympathy is bad but I`d rather have that safety net. Maybe on a sniper since the range is frankly ridiculous.

[Merlyn]

Originally posted by subscriber:

The "Training Roulette" is not a perfect fun all of the time, because sometimes (though really rarely, indeed) you might get to choose between a useless and even more useless perk:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=298644705

Now, that is a choice, isn't it? For a squad-sight sniper, that usually stands kilometres away from the nearest opponent, you get to choose between a "close combat" and a "grenadier" :)

I think it's not so bad because with either of those choices you can make a good secret operative for exalt ops, especially Close and Personal since the pistol is the only weapon (barring grenades or arc-thrower) :).

I am currently using my 1st training roulette game (with Not Created Equally, Hidden Potential, Mind Hates Matter and the Greater Good) and some results are odd, some others are cool.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=315705966
This one make a frontline good medic with great pockets plus resistance to crits

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=315707786
this one can CP freely nearly target and if the target is half HP deal more + great pockets too for grenades

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=315707802
a snapshot snaper with sentinel, would be better with squadsight but can overwatch twice, that could be useful

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=315707820
An assault geared for close combat against robots plus she has low profile, sprinter and double shot, can be handy when full cover is not available or running is a better option

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=315707846
a support with saviour, useful (but too bas she has not great pockets or field medic, has also low profile

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=315707859
a squadsight sniper with heat ammo and conditionning, can wear heavy armor and have extra HP.

[Simon Phoenix]

Honestly after a while with regular soldiers I know exactly what I will take at each level, and thats boring. Training Roulette makes it so much more exciting when your soldiers level up.

[red255]

I liked Training roulette in vanilla, allowed me to dumb supports and heavies and just give field medic and grenadier to my guys to handle it.

odd with that free reaction shot on snipers, it actually hits more often than you'd think.

I don't use it in long war because I'm not willing to throw more wrenches into the mess until its out of beta.

[TheCombatWombat]

Personally I dislike Training Roulette as it stands.

Sure, you can get some great combinations out of it, but I've also seen it ruin potentially awesome soldiers or make rubbish soldiers "necessary" to take instead of just firing/ignoring.

Also, it seems totally out of context to me. Sure, I can see the idea that real people have different talents/skills/etc. but you tell me what would happen if some soldier wandered up to his boss and went : "Gee, Sarge, it's neat that I've got this sniper rifle and all, but I really feel I could be more use up close, so I'm gonna train to quickscope all the things if they get really close to me, then park myself on the front lines. Hope that's OK with you!"

If Training Roulette were a little more focused, I'd like it a lot more. Alternatively, if it at least let you make decisions based on the soldier's "talents" (e.g. let you see the whole tree) I'd also be happier with it.

But as it stands, it's a no-no for me.