Long War: Defense

[LooksLikeDaniel]

I may have asked this before, but how exactly does the defense stat work? What is it's practical effect?

I have been known to pass up otherwise excellent soldiers because they had -3 or -4 defense and I'm wondering if that's a mistake.

[szmind]

Defense stat is deducted from aliens hit-chance. If it is negative (say -3) it is actually a buff to aliens' "To Hit" vs the soldier (e.g. +3 to alien's hit chance). Negative defense is what you want on your tanking soldiers. I mainly ignore that stat (not relevant really) but like 4+ or 5+ defense on my scouts :) At least I liked it when I used to play the game - now mainly modding :)

[Timbermaw]

It's mostly negligible (except that one time it wasn't and you trooper gets hit twice in a row and dies)

[Fadeway]

To expand on what szmind hinted at, defense's main effect is aggro manipulation. If an ayy has two soldiers in view and one is easier to hit, that's the one that's gonna get shot at most of the time (there are exceptions if the high-def target is easier to kill or doing something threatening). This means that high-defense soldiers are not that valuable since they lose a lot of stats for it and it just leads to their teammates getting shot instead.

Perhaps you've noticed that reinforced armor gives -7 defense. It's a tanking item that gives DR, and the negative defense is meant as a buff - you can keep your tank in high cover and still have low defense and draw fire with him.

I think defense is overall unimportant. It can have an effect if all soldiers in a squad have similar defense, but there are far more important factors that go into that decision. Another way to use it is to give it to soldiers that want to avoid enemy fire, but you can't really abuse this because the ayys will prioritize targets with low health even if they are hard to hit. It's still nice on gunnerss/rocketeers/scouts who must avoid getting hit, but because defense costs a lot (+10 def is equivalent to -10 aim or -2 aim -2 mobility) and doesn't let you remove all health items, it tends to be more of a sidegrade or a way to avoid wasting the score on a class that won't use it.

[cwayne59]

Just how well does the "low defense" work on tanks to gain aggro.? It definitely does gain the aggro, but the aliens are very good shots with more powerful weapons. So your would-be tank just gets shot a lot and dies anyway. At least early in the game. I had a -5 defense with 87 aim as a rookie. So he survived and I made him a sniper so he could stay far away from getting shot at. Mostly. Gotta watch those Floaters though.

So what do you do with low defense AND low aim. Assault? I don't know. Seems like a suicide mission.

[spaceweezle]

Originally posted by cwayne59:

Just how well does the "low defense" work on tanks to gain aggro.? It definitely does gain the aggro, but the aliens are very good shots with more powerful weapons. So your would-be tank just gets shot a lot and dies anyway. At least early in the game. I had a -5 defense with 87 aim as a rookie. So he survived and I made him a sniper so he could stay far away from getting shot at. Mostly. Gotta watch those Floaters though.

So what do you do with low defense AND low aim. Assault? I don't know. Seems like a suicide mission.

As you've likely noticed, the game has a sort of inverse difficulty to it, And your initial success relies greatly on your ability to babysit your soldiers through the early game until a point they have enough abilities to form some cohesion between there own build and that of the entire squad.

By the mid/late game I find the starting defence value to be largely inconsequential as the outcome is usually dictated more by how you position your squad in any given engagement. Most of the time I want enemies to shoot at my Goliath's, except on occasion where I'm dealing with a very formidable enemy that uses Heat ammo. So given the option, a defence deficit is preferable for both Mec and Bio tanks, but it's not something that should be completely relied on.

Best thing I could advise to keep your rookie tanks alive is to make sure they have the best gear and abilities to synergize with that particular role. And of course it helps that Assaults have been assigned based off of stats like high HP and mobility. My own particular strategy to get the best Assaults and Infantry is to start with the UK for the bonus aim and then hold off on promoting them until the 2nd month at which point I drop satellites on Russia to get the bonus HP. I go for the aim bonus as I use my Assaults as Hit & Run shred rifleman.

Of course none of this matters if you aren't using good tactics on the field. I used to think this game was crap and everything about it was just dumb luck. But I have come to realise there is much you can do as commander to mitigate the often brutal nature of RNG.

Best of luck to you commander.

[Fins]

Originally posted by cwayne59:

...
So what do you do with low defense AND low aim. Assault? I don't know. Seems like a suicide mission.

Nope, not assault. Low-def low-aim rookies are often highly valuable matherial for Concealment Scouts (since they tend to have highest Speed stat), and similarly highly valuable matherial for top-notch Support + Psi classes (engineer, medic), since they also often tend to have highest Will stat. Neither of those three classes / roles have any need for high aim when fully developed: their job is not to "shoot" things. Similarly, their job is not to tank, either. Properly played, they will never get shot to begin with. Thus low defense is of no consequence - while other higher stats (Speed, Will) are.

Also, some folks who're much into MECs often send their "not good stats for me" rookies into few battles then change those into MEC troopers, as this resets their stats and MEC troopers by default all start with very same amount of everything (including aim for sure, and i guess including def too).

Other than that, you can Dismiss 'em if you need more Barracks space, OR you can use them as cannon fodder - whichever you prefer.

[Guilliem]

Yes people who can run further are a godsend. But I prefer people that shoot straight up to the mid game. But scouts need to get from A to B to C ASAP.

There are many ways to play this game, but fewer ways to win. I never really pay much attention to defence, as I try to keep my troops out of sight & the ones pulling have lightning reflexes.

[Ditsch]

rely on lightning reflexes in long war ends in a scout-only graveyard