Question about the shotgun and the assault soldier

[Charlemagne]

OK I know all about shotguns and how they're super for very close range (like in your face) and worthless in all other situations.

So I've been giving my assault soldiers assault rifles instead (assault--> assault rifle, kind of makes sense, no?) because in my opinion, shotgun simply sucks. Getting close to the aliens so the soldier can use his shotgun=suicide. Sure there are situations where you can bottle up the alien and then polish them off with the shotgun, but in all other situations the assault soldier is just a spectator that doesn't help at all. Again, IMO. They don't even have a pistol for far range situations. Besides, moving up to a skinny man, or a muton, or a pod, to get a shot at them doesn't seem very healthy at all.

My son disagrees with my policy and says that it's just that I don't know how to use them. I DO know how to use them, like move up to one or two tiles from the alien and shoot his face off. But if the alien doesn't die, then the soldier is dead.

Furthermore, he says that assault soldier perks don't work with weapons other than the shotgun. Is this last statement true? If yes, I might reconsider my policy of giving them assault rifles instead. Although in the end I might simply not take assault soldiers along, because shotguns suck.

[Milk]

Why wouldn't the alien die? It's a shotgun. Most aliens you face have 3-4 HP while you only have base weapons. It's unlikely that they don't die. The only aliens that don't die on hit are floaters and thinmen, which are rare on the first month. If they miraculously don't die from the massive crit chances, toss a grenade to finish them off. All of your guys should have grenades anyways, unless you already have a squadsight sniper.

The AR is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ weapon. Early game, you never really want to rely on 65% shots, which, surprise, is the base aim of all of your rookies. And that's on a flank. Which is terrible.

Point blank flank, it's still less than a 100% chance to hit. The shotgun will result in a 100% chance to hit on a point blank flank, and will probably still have close to 100% while the target behind cover too if you are close enough.

However once you research lasers, you'll want to give the assault a laser rifle until scatter lasers are researched for obvious reasons (damage increase).

Assaults also have pistols. What version of the game are you playing?

[red255]

your son is correct, giving an assault anything but a shotgun is simply doing it wrong.

except if you have captured plasma rifles while you are still in lasers, then maybe you could make a case for a rifle until you get alloy cannons.

We are all Dead if we mess up. don't mess up have a plan.

OK so what is friend doing wrong?

Month 1 and 2 you got sectoids, floaters, thin men, the shotgun will kill those if you are close enough to have 100% accuracy. Not really sure the situation here where you are screwing up the shotgun, do you not have a flank?

Secondly if you flank properly without letting yourself get flanked if you don't kill the enemy the enemy will run from being flanked allowing you to proc the close encounters free shot to enemies moving inside of 4 tiles. ...so the assault won't die.

Assault gets a free standard shot to targets inside of 4 tiles (perk) and a pair of shots with rapid fire, and then the over watch shot. thats 4 shots. what isn't Dying to 4 shotgun blasts at point blank range?

And I'm going to need a screenshot of your assault with no pistol. Ranger in XCOM 2 has no pistol but this is not XCOM 2.

Ranger in XCOM 2 is a different can of worms Currently I shadowstrike and conceal with ranger, while my grenadier mines. (run and gun + salvo = 3 explosive/heavy weapons in a single turn. or more generally 2 and a rupture shot.)

[Charlemagne]

I guess I was taking a simplistic shootout approach to combat here, which I tend to have in many games including FPS. I''ll try to learn the rght use of the shotgun then.

[Mhblis]

Yes XCOM is not a FPS. Getitng into shoot outs with aliens is going to cause you all sorts of problems.

Think of the actual shooting sections more of setting up ambushes. Quick surgical strikes.

Ideally you
* spot the aliens
* Setup the attack over a turn or 2
* Clean up the whole pod in 1 turn.
* Reload
* Repeat.

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Like you I tend to give my rookies rifles. And yes some of the perks don't work but they say they are shotgun specific so just don't pick them. Rapid Fire definatly works and I know close encounters in Long War Mod does as well. Would have to check CE in vanilla game though. I have used them into lategame purely because I forget they have rifles. It can work and if thats your preference you have to build them that way. But shotguns do work better.

Once they hit Seargent I switch to shotguns. And they should have pistols. Are you perhaps confusing the Heavy here?

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I'd advise watching some Let's Plays like the ones stickied to see how people are using the Assualts. See how it differs form your approach and try it out. Maybe you like it maybe you dont.

[Charlemagne]

I was confused about the pistols. Couldn't find where they were! It is good to give assault (leaving them the shotgun, I am already convinced of that) and sniper lasers and better pistols, it increases their ability to respond to different situations. The basic pistol although better than nothing, is little more than a firecracker.

[WindsorW]

Whether to give your assaults shotguns or rifles is mainly a matter of play style. If you use them for close in work, the shotgun has plenty of value. If you are usually using your assaults from longer range, then a rifle-type weapon is a better choice. Run and gun, rapid fire, and the close encounter extra shot (can't remember the exact name of the perk) all work with rifles as well as with shotguns.

I tend to go with rifles, myself, but if I develop a second assault to higher rank I will arm him with a shotgun type weapon for more tactical options. Mostly I use my rifle-armed assaults as highly mobile trouble shooters, with run and gun plus rapid fire to get shots where I need them. Lightning reflexes is used to draw alien overwatch fire, freeing other squad members to move. I have completed the game several times with this approach, so it does work. And that's really the point, isn't it? Find a style that works for you and run (and gun :)) with it.

[Player 2]

don't rush to the enemy if you are not sure you can clear them in that turn, or even worse triggering another enemy's pod. ghost armor will be helpfull tho.

approach to the enemy with hunker down or avoid enemy's sight (can't hit if they can't see).

you don't need to shot enemy in point blank. shot them as close as possible but 5-7 block is accurate enough (i think)

use 2 shotgunner to help each other if you want to use them aggresively. and they are pretty usefull to clear enemy flanker.

don't blob in one spot, muton like to nade.

actually assault rifle is useless in end game. somehow plasma rifle is pretty inaccurate in long range and light plasma rifle only good for supporting role (suppressing fire, clear enemy from cover, kill healthless enemy, etc).

so you want your assault troop as a support for your squad or as an assault gunner. it's your choice

[red255]

Originally posted by Charlemagne:

I was confused about the pistols. Couldn't find where they were! It is good to give assault (leaving them the shotgun, I am already convinced of that) and sniper lasers and better pistols, it increases their ability to respond to different situations. The basic pistol although better than nothing, is little more than a firecracker.

it... doesn't do much damage basically all you can count on is 1 damage. the laser pistol I use on the assault with Rapid fire to destroy cover and swear when he actually hits with the thing. NO NO you have a 20% chance to hit, burn his cover!

But if you have training roulette and get gunslinger thats +2 damage making it 1 damage less than the rifle at the tier. and it doesn't need reloading ever. (otherwise its 3 damage less than an assault rifle)

the plasma tier pistols with the foundry upgrades (Which cost alot of fragments so hold off) are good. the laser tiers you get like very early because it should be a priority research and are cheap, main expense is the 10 engineers they require to make.

How many Engineers does it take to make a laser pistol? 10. you determine the punchline. I'm going with 'thats XCOM baby'

But yeah without gunslinger you probably won't be pistoling for significant damage until plasma. but it carries significant terrain damage and no ammo usage. Rapid fire with it at long ranges on the assault. so your sniper can connect with an exposed target.

[Player 2]

Originally posted by red255:

it... doesn't do much damage

i always use it for my assault/squadsight sniper for attack or just do overwatch. yea sometime they can't use their main weapon or can't use them effectively. it's still better than doing nothing tho. sometime 1 health can be very crucial. just don't forget to switch them back when your main gun are available