Stop whining about "woke" stuff, get hype for the game.

[Trist10]

I am getting sick and tired of seeing posts derailing saying "sigh.... subnautica 2 looks WOKE already.... no-go for me.." Like bro please shut the hell up oh my GOD, we do not give a ♥♥♥♥. You're here to talk about playing a game and you're complaining about a fictional character you play as not being the same race as you my god man. Can we just step back and just keep talking about the game for gods sake and not care if they put "wOkE" stuff in their game??? I can see pointing out writing problems and giving constructive criticism, but seeing people say "Um the characters in the trailer look WOKE and out of a Disney cartoon!!!" While not realizing that it's LITERALLY the artstyle that Unknown Worlds has been using for all Subnautica titles and promotional material is baffling to me.

Also one more sidenote, please remember the game is releasing in EARLY-ACCESS! You're not paying for the full game on day one, you're paying to get an early, most likely bug-filled, beta to provide actual feedback on.

["The Lunatic" Wolf-fighter]

i mean . was like that since subnautica 1 already. would kinda guess they shoved that as woke kind of thing in tho. why cant we still not choose the char we play or have a white mc now? even tho it sucks , the game was mainly about the water world anyways and all the sea creatures . it was a minor thing of the game you could basically even ignore if you put a dive suit on so you dont have to see the skin color lol. but people are simply tired of it after all that crap in one game after the other. it would be really simple for them to let you choose a white char simply,

[miklkit]

Agreed. Those whiny little snowflakes have no life besides crying. What a bunch of Karens.
In almost all Sci-Fi future histories Earth gets nuked. So just who gets nuked? Europe and America and China. India, Africa, and South America survive.
So a future history featuring mostly Brown people is correct. No current politics is involved at all.

[Catalytic]

It is interesting to me that no one ever makes the argument for "woke". It gets added and it's just assumed everyone wants it. There are, however, some of us who don't like these ideas and values and we should have the right to say so without being raged at by anonymous people on the internet.

Personally, I'd prefer my games not deal in political themes too heavily, but with science fiction, it sort of goes without saying that the fiction is used to tell a story or to explore some element of society. Every well-known sci-fi franchise does. Consider Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card. It touches on the role of children, their innocence, and the value of alien species. How should we treat the other creatures in our universe? It's not always straight-forward to answer that question. We could list many others, but the point is that to be compelling, most sci-fi does force you to think, and "woke" is something worth thinking about, given its prevalence. If UWE thinks it's important, they're entirely within their rights to feature it, just as we are to either buy or not buy it.

If anything frustrates me about the discussion, it's that it immediately devolves into nasty name-calling and accusations that you're an idiot or an uneducated moron if you disagree. That's a cult-like mentality, and it can't lead to productive discussion. To their credit, the devs have allowed some discussion here, as long as it doesn't devolve into toxicity. That's a good thing. We need more of this, because we on the "traditional" or "conservative" side of the argument aren't going away, nor are those on the other side. We have to learn to talk to each other.

Let's try this: If you want "woke," make the argument for woke. What do you want to see added and why is it so important that it be added to SN2? (and let's be civil about it, please). Edit: Please remember the forum rules about politics and toxicity and keep the comments specific to improving this specific game.

[Trist10]

Originally posted by Catalytic:

Let's try this: If you want "woke," make the argument for woke. What do you want to see added and why is it so important that it be added to SN2? (and let's be civil about it, please). Edit: Please remember the forum rules about politics and toxicity and keep the comments specific to improving this specific game.

I'm not trying to advocate for or against them wanting adding "wOkE" stuff in their game, I'm here to play a VIDEO GAME for FUN. I'm sick of all the people putting aside the fun in a game all because a person of color is in the game or dear god have any gay/lesbian people in it (Oh the horror...). This topic should be left buried in only the forums and it shouldn't be a main focus on changing in the game unless it gets out of hand. I never saw any problem with the characters from Below Zero besides the writing and the story, I didn't look at Robin in the poster and go "Ugh.... this game SUCKS and not for me." I can say though, YES it's not "Important" for SN2 to add diversity in any way shape or form, but people complaining about the characters looking like actual human beings is just ticking me off.

I don't care if it's civil or toxic in every situation, the discussion is a nothing burger problem that the developers shouldn't be caring about "fixing" based on the criticism that it's just in the game. As long as they keep it faithful to whoever they're trying to represent, I wouldn't mind at all who we play as or what characters are. Just because a character is a different race or sexuality shouldn't be starting so many flame wars or stopping people from buying/playing a game, and is a really toxic mindset to have modern day.

TL;DR We shouldn't care about them adding anything "woke" to their game as long as it's not insensitive. We should instead be caring about the actual game play for the game when it's early access releases. It shouldn't matter if a character you're seeing in a game is a different race than yours or has a different sexuality. This isn't in any way trying to insult you, just trying to express my stance on what's happening.

[admiral1018]

The core gameplay loop in Subnautica is exploration and discovery based in a completely immersive environment. If that immersion is broken by references to modern-day politics that are completely out of context in the Subnautica universe, gameplay is actively harmed and people have every right to complain.

There is absolutely nothing "woke" or political about racial diversity. Having worked in science labs myself at university, they are some of the most naturally diverse environments you will see. It would actually be bizarre not to see a racially/ethnically diverse cast in that setting, and I fully expect that to be in SN2.

Now, if the game goes beyond that and has visible pronouns, gender politics, veiled anti-Trump stuff, etc., that's a much different story, and the game will get dog-piled for that since it's a sign of the devs putting their personal politics before the player experience. I'm cautiously optimistic that won't happen since Moonbreaker had no such content, but we'll see.

[Sero]

Sorry OP but that sounds a lot like:
Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product.

Originally posted by "The Lunatic" Wolf-fighter:

i mean . was like that since subnautica 1 already. would kinda guess they shoved that as woke kind of thing in tho. why cant we still not choose the char we play or have a white mc now? even tho it sucks , the game was mainly about the water world anyways and all the sea creatures . it was a minor thing of the game you could basically even ignore if you put a dive suit on so you dont have to see the skin color lol. but people are simply tired of it after all that crap in one game after the other. it would be really simple for them to let you choose a white char simply,

How do you know how the PCs look like?

Originally posted by Catalytic:

Let's try this: If you want "woke," make the argument for woke. What do you want to see added and why is it so important that it be added to SN2? (and let's be civil about it, please). Edit: Please remember the forum rules about politics and toxicity and keep the comments specific to improving this specific game.

First you need to define what YOUR interpretation of woke is.

It goes from: There is anything that isn't a white man. (or woman to be ogled)
To: Intentionally ruining stuff for everyone just because someone they don't like likes it.

In general the reason why "woke stuff" is in media is so people get used to those things existing, they become "normal", in the way that people stop discriminating against them.
Statistics say that people from more ethnically homogenous regions are more racist.

The issue is that what most people consider woke is very ham-handed, in-your-face preaching instead of simply having a diverse cast of characters.
It also does not help that those same people seem to apply the character roster creation to their hiring process aswell. That leads to a lot of those games being simply bad. Having a less diverse cast of characters would not have saved those games.

[miklkit]

Hmmph. The Zombies are trying to change the subject away from their own prejudices. Woke is Black slang for being aware of the social injustices and taking action to address them. Be awake and be aware, as opposed to being a Zombie.
Personally I got bored with nothing but white male superheroes in every game and welcome any refreshing change.

[Catalytic]

Originally posted by miklkit:

Hmmph. The Zombies are trying to change the subject away from their own prejudices. Woke is Black slang for being aware of the social injustices and taking action to address them. Be awake and be aware, as opposed to being a Zombie.
Personally I got bored with nothing but white male superheroes in every game and welcome any refreshing change.

Not trying to be insulting here, but are you suggesting that you have your own preference that you want to see in the game, that is, you think there are too many white men in video games, so you'd prefer other demographics? Do you see supporting such a thing as taking action to address social injustices? This is a delicate discussion I'm trying to have respectfully without letting it turn toxic. I don't want to put words in your mouth or misrepresent you, so please correct that if it's wrong, but I'm trying to get at the reason(s) for making these choices.

Originally posted by Sero:

First you need to define what YOUR interpretation of woke is.

It goes from: There is anything that isn't a white man. (or woman to be ogled)
To: Intentionally ruining stuff for everyone just because someone they don't like likes it.

In general the reason why "woke stuff" is in media is so people get used to those things existing, they become "normal", in the way that people stop discriminating against them.
Statistics say that people from more ethnically homogenous regions are more racist.

The issue is that what most people consider woke is very ham-handed, in-your-face preaching instead of simply having a diverse cast of characters.

I definitely agree that you have to define terms in order to really have the discussion. I've avoided giving my own definition in this thread (but I have elsewhere) only because I want to people who have different understandings of the term to discuss it, but more importantly to think about the specific things they're actually promoting or objecting to.

Given your last line that I quoted, would you say that video games have a duty to encourage/nudge/force people to change their attitudes on social issues, in reference to those ethnically homogenous groups you mentioned? If so, would you say that the way to do it is by deliberately showing examples of non-ethnically homogenous groups of people in stories/movies/games?

[Catalytic]

An interesting and relevant survey from gaming industry via the Electronic Software Association (ESA). This is a survey of 5,000 US gamers that addresses who they are and why they play, so we can get a sense of what the market actually looks like and who's actually playing video games.

https://www.theesa.com/resources/essential-facts-about-the-us-video-game-industry/2024-data/

The full report is linked at the bottom of the page.

[miklkit]

There are plenty of games that have done well with other than generic white male superheroes. I prefer to buy those.

As for the snowflakes complaining about "woke", "dei", "crt", "politically correct", etc., when one has been getting special treatment being forced to use equality feels like oppression.

[Sero]

Originally posted by Catalytic:

Given your last line that I quoted, would you say that video games have a duty to encourage/nudge/force people to change their attitudes on social issues, in reference to those ethnically homogenous groups you mentioned? If so, would you say that the way to do it is by deliberately showing examples of non-ethnically homogenous groups of people in stories/movies/games?

No duty may be imposed on art.
No art should be censored, no books burned.
Even wrong opinions have value when you explore how they were formed.

Originally posted by miklkit:

There are plenty of games that have done well with other than generic white male superheroes. I prefer to buy those.

As for the snowflakes complaining about "woke", "dei", "crt", "politically correct", etc., when one has been getting special treatment being forced to use equality feels like oppression.

That's kinda racist and sexist, isn't it?!

And I always found your last to be a concerning proposition since it's inherently subjective an can easily be used to justify oppression. People aren't allowed to complain about it according to you.

Fine, according to you they are allowed to complain but you simply brush those complaints off.
Not sure how black Ariel fixes any of that though.

Often times you can't even tell in wha direction that stupid phrase is going.
I could just aswell use that phrase to justify more white male protagonists since there have been so many "woke" main characters in the past few years.

["The Lunatic" Wolf-fighter]

Originally posted by Sero:

Originally posted by Catalytic:

Given your last line that I quoted, would you say that video games have a duty to encourage/nudge/force people to change their attitudes on social issues, in reference to those ethnically homogenous groups you mentioned? If so, would you say that the way to do it is by deliberately showing examples of non-ethnically homogenous groups of people in stories/movies/games?

No duty may be imposed on art.
No art should be censored, no books burned.
Even wrong opinions have value when you explore how they were formed.

Originally posted by miklkit:

There are plenty of games that have done well with other than generic white male superheroes. I prefer to buy those.

As for the snowflakes complaining about "woke", "dei", "crt", "politically correct", etc., when one has been getting special treatment being forced to use equality feels like oppression.

That's kinda racist and sexist, isn't it?!

And I always found your last to be a concerning proposition since it's inherently subjective an can easily be used to justify oppression. People aren't allowed to complain about it according to you.

Fine, according to you they are allowed to complain but you simply brush those complaints off.
Not sure how black Ariel fixes any of that though.

Often times you can't even tell in wha direction that stupid phrase is going.
I could just aswell use that phrase to justify more white male protagonists since there have been so many "woke" main characters in the past few years.

can we be finally honest about it and admit that people are naturally racist? most are simply hypocrit pretending about it not to be and act so "tolerant" these so called "Loving and tolerant" people are in fact the worst most racistic people of all even

[Sero]

Originally posted by "The Lunatic" Wolf-fighter:

can we be finally honest about it and admit that people are naturally racist? most are simply hypocrit pretending about it not to be and act so "tolerant" these so called "Loving and tolerant" people are in fact the worst most racistic people of all even

I don't believe that, I will give you xenophobic though.

That the "aggressively tolerant" people aren't actually tolerant is easy to see. They usually don't even help those people they profess to help, they are sing them as a shield for their selfabsorbed behaviour.

[miklkit]

Originally posted by Sero:

Originally posted by Catalytic:

Given your last line that I quoted, would you say that video games have a duty to encourage/nudge/force people to change their attitudes on social issues, in reference to those ethnically homogenous groups you mentioned? If so, would you say that the way to do it is by deliberately showing examples of non-ethnically homogenous groups of people in stories/movies/games?

No duty may be imposed on art.
No art should be censored, no books burned.
Even wrong opinions have value when you explore how they were formed.

Originally posted by miklkit:

There are plenty of games that have done well with other than generic white male superheroes. I prefer to buy those.

As for the snowflakes complaining about "woke", "dei", "crt", "politically correct", etc., when one has been getting special treatment being forced to use equality feels like oppression.

That's kinda racist and sexist, isn't it?!

And I always found your last to be a concerning proposition since it's inherently subjective an can easily be used to justify oppression. People aren't allowed to complain about it according to you.

Fine, according to you they are allowed to complain but you simply brush those complaints off.
Not sure how black Ariel fixes any of that though.

Often times you can't even tell in wha direction that stupid phrase is going.
I could just aswell use that phrase to justify more white male protagonists since there have been so many "woke" main characters in the past few years.

LOL!

That arrow struck home!

[Deinomache]

most woke games are bad games. concord, Hyenas (canceled). unknown 9, star wars outlaws and more.
a woke game is not just a woke game. most times is a bad game because the devs are most concerned about woke propaganda than the quality and fun.

So yes we are concerned about the "woke" garbage even in subnautica 2. as a great fan of Subnautica I want a pretty good game.