Bunker is NOT better than Rebirth and here's why

[i'm quitting tomorrow]

Amnesia: Rebirth strayed from the Amnesia formula by changing the focus of the game from the terrific horror sections to creating a captivating story. They created breathtaking environments that dive deep into the lovecraftian and finally show us the Dark World. The environments of the Dark World are brilliant in terms of showing us the culture of an alien race that has it's own share of problems and different mentality. The enemies aren't the star of the show anymore. Instead they serve to create atmosphere.
Amnesia: The Bunker on the other hand is not a story-driven game, but instead an experience. They took the scarcity of resources and value of items from Dark Descent and improved on it. We are immersed not by the story, but the interactivity of the world we play in, as everything we find makes a difference and the choices we make are impactful and make everyones playthough unique to a certain extent.
One game is an interactive story and the other is a survival horror and thus both are great and comparing them without seeing the whole picture is blatantly ignorant.

[patrol]

Publicado originalmente por undead next door:

You see you wrote your opinion on the matter which I find is the best way to describe your experience with the game, I support that. I think calling something bad or good is primitive and doesn't say anything about what the game feels to play. Sadly, the majority of reviewers nowadays do just that. But saying your preferences and describing the experience you had while playing gives the reader a fuller picture of what the game is about.

Yeah i've noticed that as well it doesn't help that the ratings from reviewers vary and may confuse people when you're looking at multiple sources, I've seen Rebirth get between
4-9.5/10 ratings from different sites all with different approach.
"Frictional returns with a subversion of horror tropes, though it's not quite the measure of other games in the series"
"Spiralling towers, endless deserts and impossible geometry; Frictional's return with Amnesia: Rebirth showcases why they're the masters of horror"
"If you're looking for a good scare, Amnesia: Rebirth delivers, but prepare to feel lost and confused along the way"
"A dark and twisted piece of playable horror fiction that delivers a memorable story"
"Amnesia: Rebirth is a game that deserves the name of the series with its gripping story and exquisite design. Anyone who loves horror games should buy and play"
"A disappointing sequel to The Dark Descent, but while the horror elements can seem mundane at times the storytelling and characterisation remain impressive"
Those are just some of the short reviews that were published when the game released. Kinda easy to tell why people might be conflicted about buying it
Edit: Your experience depends mainly on, what you expect from the game

[morko]

Publicado originalmente por king dummy:

Publicado originalmente por morko:

I can tell.

i wasnt talking specifically about amnesia, im not even a knowledgable fan of amnesia, i just was saddened by what you said, its truly sad

I understand. Being a sad attention wh*re on an anonymous forum does sound depressing.

[i'm quitting tomorrow]

Publicado originalmente por patrol:

Publicado originalmente por undead next door:

You see you wrote your opinion on the matter which I find is the best way to describe your experience with the game, I support that. I think calling something bad or good is primitive and doesn't say anything about what the game feels to play. Sadly, the majority of reviewers nowadays do just that. But saying your preferences and describing the experience you had while playing gives the reader a fuller picture of what the game is about.

Yeah i've noticed that as well it doesn't help that the ratings from reviewers vary and may confuse people when you're looking at multiple sources, I've seen Rebirth get between
4-9.5/10 ratings from different sites all with different approach.
"Frictional returns with a subversion of horror tropes, though it's not quite the measure of other games in the series"
"Spiralling towers, endless deserts and impossible geometry; Frictional's return with Amnesia: Rebirth showcases why they're the masters of horror"
"If you're looking for a good scare, Amnesia: Rebirth delivers, but prepare to feel lost and confused along the way"
"A dark and twisted piece of playable horror fiction that delivers a memorable story"
"Amnesia: Rebirth is a game that deserves the name of the series with its gripping story and exquisite design. Anyone who loves horror games should buy and play"
"A disappointing sequel to The Dark Descent, but while the horror elements can seem mundane at times the storytelling and characterisation remain impressive"
Those are just some of the short reviews that were published when the game released. Kinda easy to tell why people might be conflicted about buying it

These review are actually quite

Publicado originalmente por patrol:

Publicado originalmente por undead next door:

You see you wrote your opinion on the matter which I find is the best way to describe your experience with the game, I support that. I think calling something bad or good is primitive and doesn't say anything about what the game feels to play. Sadly, the majority of reviewers nowadays do just that. But saying your preferences and describing the experience you had while playing gives the reader a fuller picture of what the game is about.

Yeah i've noticed that as well it doesn't help that the ratings from reviewers vary and may confuse people when you're looking at multiple sources, I've seen Rebirth get between
4-9.5/10 ratings from different sites all with different approach.
"Frictional returns with a subversion of horror tropes, though it's not quite the measure of other games in the series"
"Spiralling towers, endless deserts and impossible geometry; Frictional's return with Amnesia: Rebirth showcases why they're the masters of horror"
"If you're looking for a good scare, Amnesia: Rebirth delivers, but prepare to feel lost and confused along the way"
"A dark and twisted piece of playable horror fiction that delivers a memorable story"
"Amnesia: Rebirth is a game that deserves the name of the series with its gripping story and exquisite design. Anyone who loves horror games should buy and play"
"A disappointing sequel to The Dark Descent, but while the horror elements can seem mundane at times the storytelling and characterisation remain impressive"
Those are just some of the short reviews that were published when the game released. Kinda easy to tell why people might be conflicted about buying it

Some of these reviews are quite well actually, but the 1-10 system rubs me off the wrong way sometimes.

[Dzarmer]

We already had a game with captivating story and enemies serving atmospheric purposes. It's even a part of the series. It's called A Machine For Pigs.

If Dark Descent popularised the concept of "weak protagonist runs away from spooky monster" A Machine For Pigs toned down this aspect and focused on telling a very disturbing and relatable story, from standpoint of humanity as a whole down to standalone individuals. Yes it was made by a different studio, but it exists and it's a part of the franchise and universe.

Rebirth decided to mix these games leading to mixed result. People who wanted "return to the form of Descent" received a weak walking sim with generic monsters and very uninspired scripted chase sequences. Others that understood the glory of the Machine's story received a very weird mix of "Pregnant woman that forgot she is pregnant" and a story about the entire alien civilization dying out.

Sure, the personal story of Tasi is tragic, but stakes are nowhere near Descent or Machine, not from the standpoint of scale or relatability. The topic of motherhood and child loss is too specific, I'd say nearly ungraspable for the majority of people that play these games. Previous installments didn't need to dive deep in such specifics to make you engaged, terrified, pressured.

To summarize, if Rebirth is trying to tell a story, it's not as relatable, not as disturbing, not as engaging. If it's trying to scare you, it fails because it chooses very specific, almost niche topics, mixes it with crisis of another civilization and throws generic monsters in scripted sequences.

Bunker chooses very real and very disturbing setting, WW1, mixes it with a bit of supernatural from Rebirth (however you don't need to be familiar with it to be unnerved) and makes interactability and constant pressure it's main focus. Story is delivered by notes, but this time it's more grounded, pun intended. It's the fear of the unknown, struggles of war, tragedy of betrayal, torment of consciousnes, panic caused by utter impotence in the face of death. You don't need to be a war vet to understand all of this.

To summarize Bunker, it's almost perfectly crafted horror experience that manages to engage you at every turn. From it's setting and location choice to events that occur and gameplay elements it's a game that deserves the title of "The best Amnesia game so far"

[breadman]

it's much better than rebirth

rebirth was a boring drawn out drag

[i'm quitting tomorrow]

Publicado originalmente por Dzarmer:

We already had a game with captivating story and enemies serving atmospheric purposes. It's even a part of the series. It's called A Machine For Pigs.

If Dark Descent popularised the concept of "weak protagonist runs away from spooky monster" A Machine For Pigs toned down this aspect and focused on telling a very disturbing and relatable story, from standpoint of humanity as a whole down to standalone individuals. Yes it was made by a different studio, but it exists and it's a part of the franchise and universe.

Rebirth decided to mix these games leading to mixed result. People who wanted "return to the form of Descent" received a weak walking sim with generic monsters and very uninspired scripted chase sequences. Others that understood the glory of the Machine's story received a very weird mix of "Pregnant woman that forgot she is pregnant" and a story about the entire alien civilization dying out.

Sure, the personal story of Tasi is tragic, but stakes are nowhere near Descent or Machine, not from the standpoint of scale or relatability. The topic of motherhood and child loss is too specific, I'd say nearly ungraspable for the majority of people that play these games. Previous installments didn't need to dive deep in such specifics to make you engaged, terrified, pressured.

To summarize, if Rebirth is trying to tell a story, it's not as relatable, not as disturbing, not as engaging. If it's trying to scare you, it fails because it chooses very specific, almost niche topics, mixes it with crisis of another civilization and throws generic monsters in scripted sequences.

Bunker chooses very real and very disturbing setting, WW1, mixes it with a bit of supernatural from Rebirth (however you don't need to be familiar with it to be unnerved) and makes interactability and constant pressure it's main focus. Story is delivered by notes, but this time it's more grounded, pun intended. It's the fear of the unknown, struggles of war, tragedy of betrayal, torment of consciousnes, panic caused by utter impotence in the face of death. You don't need to be a war vet to understand all of this.

To summarize Bunker, it's almost perfectly crafted horror experience that manages to engage you at every turn. From it's setting and location choice to events that occur and gameplay elements it's a game that deserves the title of "The best Amnesia game so far"

I guess the story of Amnesi: Rebirth might be a hit or miss for the audience, but I got captivated by the story for the same reason that some people may stray away from it. Very specific and not often seen in media plot. However I believe it's an important entry in the series whatsoever, because it gives an insight into the Dark World and makes you understand Alexander's motives better.

[Dzarmer]

Publicado originalmente por undead next door:

I guess the story of Amnesi: Rebirth might be a hit or miss for the audience, but I got captivated by the story for the same reason that some people may stray away from it. Very specific and not often seen in media plot. However I believe it's an important entry in the series whatsoever, because it gives an insight into the Dark World and makes you understand Alexander's motives better.

The divide of audience is a good thing because it creates a discussion within the community. The fact that Rebirth even comes up as possible competitor of Bunker already says that it stayed with people longer, for better or for worse.

It's definitely an interesting entry in the series and horror media as a whole, however I think uniqueness shouldn't necessarily elevate the product just because it dares to speak about certain topics.

Rebirth definitely showed the franchise at it's lowest imho. Lack of gameplay innovations compared to Descend and inability to best Machine's story from the standpoint of relatability, scale and disturbance kinda disappointed people. It hits especially hard because it's the same people that did Soma, meaning these people CAN make an incredible story driven experience.

[i'm quitting tomorrow]

Publicado originalmente por Dzarmer:

Publicado originalmente por undead next door:

I guess the story of Amnesi: Rebirth might be a hit or miss for the audience, but I got captivated by the story for the same reason that some people may stray away from it. Very specific and not often seen in media plot. However I believe it's an important entry in the series whatsoever, because it gives an insight into the Dark World and makes you understand Alexander's motives better.

The divide of audience is a good thing because it creates a discussion within the community. The fact that Rebirth even comes up as possible competitor of Bunker already says that it stayed with people longer, for better or for worse.

It's definitely an interesting entry in the series and horror media as a whole, however I think uniqueness shouldn't necessarily elevate the product just because it dares to speak about certain topics.

Rebirth definitely showed the franchise at it's lowest imho. Lack of gameplay innovations compared to Descend and inability to best Machine's story from the standpoint of relatability, scale and disturbance kinda disappointed people. It hits especially hard because it's the same people that did Soma, meaning these people CAN make an incredible story driven experience.

I hope the next game they work on is set outside of the Amnesia world. The cliches that they have established are holding the amount of creativity that they can use in a chokehold. They perhaps should try a setting that hasn't been explored much yet, just like they did with SOMA.

[Walter White Belt]

Publicado originalmente por undead next door:

Amnesia: Rebirth strayed from the Amnesia formula by changing the focus of the game from the terrific horror sections to creating a captivating story. They created breathtaking environments that dive deep into the lovecraftian and finally show us the Dark World. The environments of the Dark World are brilliant in terms of showing us the culture of an alien race that has it's own share of problems and different mentality. The enemies aren't the star of the show anymore. Instead they serve to create atmosphere.
Amnesia: The Bunker on the other hand is not a story-driven game, but instead an experience. They took the scarcity of resources and value of items from Dark Descent and improved on it. We are immersed not by the story, but the interactivity of the world we play in, as everything we find makes a difference and the choices we make are impactful and make everyones playthough unique to a certain extent.
One game is an interactive story and the other is a survival horror and thus both are great and comparing them without seeing the whole picture is blatantly ignorant.

I appreciate a nuanced critique, and I find threads like this useful. That said, I couldn't make myself enjoy Rebirth.

SOMA worked very well for me because of its familiarity - it felt at least relatable insofar as AI and technology run amok is and has been a potential feature of humanity for some time now. That and the fact that I've worked in the petrochemical industry for years so the architecture in the game is hauntingly familiar, and I work offshore so we see footage from remote-operated underwater vehicles all the time, so the atmosphere is very much on point as well.

On the other hand, I just cannot take the "supernatural" seriously; haven't been able to for years. The world feels like it's trying to convince me to be afraid or something. Once Rebirth committed completely to a supernatural space, it felt unfamiliar in an annoying way. It wasn't compelling or interesting, it was like a Meatloaf album cover come to life. It's a little like the Zen world in Half Life - almost universally enjoyed the least by most players because it was just weird.

So, for me, SOMA was a relatable and terrifying world combined with a powerful story fused with a classic philosophical mind/body problem. Rebirth was beautifully designed world that (again, to me) was ultimately quite hollow and felt like it was trying too hard to convince me that I should be afraid. Is the Bunker closer to the former or the latter?

[i'm quitting tomorrow]

Publicado originalmente por Walter White Belt:

Publicado originalmente por undead next door:

Amnesia: Rebirth strayed from the Amnesia formula by changing the focus of the game from the terrific horror sections to creating a captivating story. They created breathtaking environments that dive deep into the lovecraftian and finally show us the Dark World. The environments of the Dark World are brilliant in terms of showing us the culture of an alien race that has it's own share of problems and different mentality. The enemies aren't the star of the show anymore. Instead they serve to create atmosphere.
Amnesia: The Bunker on the other hand is not a story-driven game, but instead an experience. They took the scarcity of resources and value of items from Dark Descent and improved on it. We are immersed not by the story, but the interactivity of the world we play in, as everything we find makes a difference and the choices we make are impactful and make everyones playthough unique to a certain extent.
One game is an interactive story and the other is a survival horror and thus both are great and comparing them without seeing the whole picture is blatantly ignorant.

I appreciate a nuanced critique, and I find threads like this useful. That said, I couldn't make myself enjoy Rebirth.

SOMA worked very well for me because of its familiarity - it felt at least relatable insofar as AI and technology run amok is and has been a potential feature of humanity for some time now. That and the fact that I've worked in the petrochemical industry for years so the architecture in the game is hauntingly familiar, and I work offshore so we see footage from remote-operated underwater vehicles all the time, so the atmosphere is very much on point as well.

On the other hand, I just cannot take the "supernatural" seriously; haven't been able to for years. The world feels like it's trying to convince me to be afraid or something. Once Rebirth committed completely to a supernatural space, it felt unfamiliar in an annoying way. It wasn't compelling or interesting, it was like a Meatloaf album cover come to life. It's a little like the Zen world in Half Life - almost universally enjoyed the least by most players because it was just weird.

So, for me, SOMA was a relatable and terrifying world combined with a powerful story fused with a classic philosophical mind/body problem. Rebirth was beautifully designed world that (again, to me) was ultimately quite hollow and felt like it was trying too hard to convince me that I should be afraid. Is the Bunker closer to the former or the latter?

I believe The Bunker is close to neither of them. That is why I myself can't enjoy it as much as I enjoyed Rebirth, SOMA or Amnesia: Justine - all narrative-centric games, although in different settings and realisation. The Bunker is an experiment where they tried focusing on gameplay, shifting the story slightly to the side. Although I can't enjoy it myself because of that, people enjoy the story for it's relatability. After all WW1 is something universally dreadful and thus captivating as a setting to immersive oneself into.

[v00d00m4n]

Publicado originalmente por undead next door:

Amnesia: Rebirth strayed from the Amnesia formula by changing the focus of the game from the terrific horror sections to creating a captivating story. They created breathtaking environments that dive deep into the lovecraftian and finally show us the Dark World. The environments of the Dark World are brilliant in terms of showing us the culture of an alien race that has it's own share of problems and different mentality. The enemies aren't the star of the show anymore. Instead they serve to create atmosphere.
Amnesia: The Bunker on the other hand is not a story-driven game, but instead an experience. They took the scarcity of resources and value of items from Dark Descent and improved on it. We are immersed not by the story, but the interactivity of the world we play in, as everything we find makes a difference and the choices we make are impactful and make everyones playthough unique to a certain extent.
One game is an interactive story and the other is a survival horror and thus both are great and comparing them without seeing the whole picture is blatantly ignorant.

They ruined dark word in a middle of game by showin sick princess that was looking for cure or whatever. Whole Lavcraftian mistery or uknown other world forces is gone. Lost my interest in rebirth story after this and never finished the game. Rebirth show that Amnesia 1 and SOMA writer who quit studio - is irraplacable and without him Frictional dropped the ball both in story telling and narrative design and its integration into game!

They really should return him back to studio. no matter the cost, without him Frictional is never the same and im really afraid for "SOMA 2 wannabe" game they are developing without him, with such a poor writing as in Rebirth and Bunker their next game will be a true successor to SOMA and SOMA will remain their best game and peak of studio.

Which is why i repeat to frictional is they are reading this - BRING BACK SOMA WRITER, CATCH HIM WHEN HE WILL FINISH ALONE IN THE DARK, OFFER HIM BILLIONS AND YOUR KIDNEYS, BUT RETURN HIM BACK!!! HE IS THE SOUL OF YOUR STUDIO AND CAPABLE LOVECRAFTIAN WRITER!!! WITHOUT HIM YOU ARE JUST FANFICTION OF YOUR FORMER SELF!

[i'm quitting tomorrow]

Publicado originalmente por v00d00m4n:

Publicado originalmente por undead next door:

Amnesia: Rebirth strayed from the Amnesia formula by changing the focus of the game from the terrific horror sections to creating a captivating story. They created breathtaking environments that dive deep into the lovecraftian and finally show us the Dark World. The environments of the Dark World are brilliant in terms of showing us the culture of an alien race that has it's own share of problems and different mentality. The enemies aren't the star of the show anymore. Instead they serve to create atmosphere.
Amnesia: The Bunker on the other hand is not a story-driven game, but instead an experience. They took the scarcity of resources and value of items from Dark Descent and improved on it. We are immersed not by the story, but the interactivity of the world we play in, as everything we find makes a difference and the choices we make are impactful and make everyones playthough unique to a certain extent.
One game is an interactive story and the other is a survival horror and thus both are great and comparing them without seeing the whole picture is blatantly ignorant.

They ruined dark word in a middle of game by showin sick princess that was looking for cure or whatever. Whole Lavcraftian mistery or uknown other world forces is gone. Lost my interest in rebirth story after this and never finished the game. Rebirth show that Amnesia 1 and SOMA writer who quit studio - is irraplacable and without him Frictional dropped the ball both in story telling and narrative design and its integration into game!

They really should return him back to studio. no matter the cost, without him Frictional is never the same and im really afraid for "SOMA 2 wannabe" game they are developing without him, with such a poor writing as in Rebirth and Bunker their next game will be a true successor to SOMA and SOMA will remain their best game and peak of studio.

Which is why i repeat to frictional is they are reading this - BRING BACK SOMA WRITER, CATCH HIM WHEN HE WILL FINISH ALONE IN THE DARK, OFFER HIM BILLIONS AND YOUR KIDNEYS, BUT RETURN HIM BACK!!! HE IS THE SOUL OF YOUR STUDIO AND CAPABLE LOVECRAFTIAN WRITER!!! WITHOUT HIM YOU ARE JUST FANFICTION OF YOUR FORMER SELF!

I didn't know the writers were different. Thanks for the heads up!

[Freeman 2.0]

I can agree about the Rebirth's lore and don't hate the game...but I didn't like its narrative. Too much interruptions, too much Tasi talking, too much linear walking, too much accidents to drag artificially the plot, too much scripted scenes. I was dissapointed how Frictional made these mistakes, being a developer about marrying organically story with gameplay. And the character drama was so dull, repetitive, ham-fisted, one dimensional and uninteresting.

Yeah, the story is secondary in Bunker, unlike previous games, but its gameplay, inmersion and horror are so strong, without hand-holding and it don't have any intrusive inmersion breaking unlike Rebirth. And yes, interactivity was always an important part of Frictional games since Penumbra and it's wonderfully done in Amnesia Bunker.

Rebirth is not a bad game, but I think Bunker is much better in general. Better an good gameplay-focused Amnesia game than a mixed story-focused one. Rebirth is not a good sucessor of SOMA or TDD narrative.

[Glug]

It's funny because I personally think Amnesia: Rebirth was a huge regression for Frictional Games. The Dark Descent had more compelling gameplay (And I'd argue a more consistent story.) and SOMA had a more interesting setting that did a lot more to immerse the player. There are a lot of questions left unanswered in Rebirth, which sours the experience since it has no meaningful fall-backs. In SOMA, Frictional did a superb job in making the world feel lived in, to make the various areas feel believable and practical, as well as explain how everything eventually collapsed. Even the primary antagonist, the WAU, is more of a villain by circumstance rather than by motive, which is important to consider when comparing it to Rebirth.

[Glug]

The player's presented with moral choices in Rebirth, but the alien world is so unbelievably bleak that justifying any choice other than "Sacrifice yourself to destroy the queen and end all the suffering" is really difficult. It also begs the question, if the queen desperately wanted a child of her own, were there none of her own species that she could adopt? How did she even manage to get a hold of Tasi Trianon & Co.? We can assume that she orchestrated the plane crash at the beginning, but surely she must've had interactions with the Algerian locals before the expedition team? Wouldn't it be easier for her to snatch a local's child? I also think that the canonical choices made by Tasi make her a bit of a ♥♥♥♥♥: "The entire expedition team will die if you don't give up your unborn child.", followed by "Lol no I'm gonna keep the child even if we all die here.". Seriously?